RugbyRebels

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I didn't think we'd have one of these back in March!

Thoughts on selections? Thoughts on tactics? Thoughts on our chances?

SA has a big midfield (including Pollard) so there’s possibly an argument to play the same side as we did in the QF, but after yesterday’s performance, it would incredibly harsh to drop anyone.

Aside from the enforced Spencer/Heinz change, I’d only be making minimal tweaks - maybe Kruis swapping with Lawes and Nowell over Slade on the bench. I’d also be fine if we left it as it was.

Scrumhead wrote:SA has a big midfield (including Pollard) so there’s possibly an argument to play the same side as we did in the QF, but after yesterday’s performance, it would incredibly harsh to drop anyone.

Aside from the enforced Spencer/Heinz change, I’d only be making minimal tweaks - maybe Kruis swapping with Lawes and Nowell over Slade on the bench. I’d also be fine if we left it as it was.

given how crap SA's defence was in the outside channels, I'd be looking at the best way of attacking that with the backs. I'm a bit hacked off with us taking so many outside backs when we now have a problem with unfit wingers and no cover at tight head. I'd want Lawes on from the start to halt any earlier saffer momentum, just in case they decide not to kick absolutely everything.

Assuming Sinckler is fit, I'd be very surprised by changes in the forwards in the 23 unless Jones decides that he has to sacrifice a back on the bench to match SA's physicality late in the game. With Spencer catching up from jet lag etc. that might have become a smidgeon more of a possibility than had Heinz not got injured. Launchbury just might suit the circumstances. I would not take that route myself.

As for the backs, if everyone is fit apart from Heinz, maybe Nowell for Joseph on the bench?

Then again, would it be such a surprise if Jones moves Tuilagi to 12? Again, much as I'm not a fan of Farrell at 12 would he be anything other than gutsy in that channel?

At this stage now, Jones deserves to have his judgement backed. So, whatever he decides to do is fine. (Never thought I'd ever say that.)

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:SA has a big midfield (including Pollard) so there’s possibly an argument to play the same side as we did in the QF, but after yesterday’s performance, it would incredibly harsh to drop anyone.

Aside from the enforced Spencer/Heinz change, I’d only be making minimal tweaks - maybe Kruis swapping with Lawes and Nowell over Slade on the bench. I’d also be fine if we left it as it was.

given how crap SA's defence was in the outside channels, I'd be looking at the best way of attacking that with the backs. I'm a bit hacked off with us taking so many outside backs when we now have a problem with unfit wingers and no cover at tight head. I'd want Lawes on from the start to halt any earlier saffer momentum, just in case they decide not to kick absolutely everything.

Oh yes.

The same way we exploited NZ by moving side to side with speed, we can get through SA. But we need to be super careful at ruck time. They're not as big thugs as they used to be, but they still hit those rucks super hard, and I wouldn't want to end up with Lawes and Wilson at 7...

Quick rucks the way to go, I think.

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:SA has a big midfield (including Pollard) so there’s possibly an argument to play the same side as we did in the QF, but after yesterday’s performance, it would incredibly harsh to drop anyone.

Aside from the enforced Spencer/Heinz change, I’d only be making minimal tweaks - maybe Kruis swapping with Lawes and Nowell over Slade on the bench. I’d also be fine if we left it as it was.

given how crap SA's defence was in the outside channels, I'd be looking at the best way of attacking that with the backs. I'm a bit hacked off with us taking so many outside backs when we now have a problem with unfit wingers and no cover at tight head. I'd want Lawes on from the start to halt any earlier saffer momentum, just in case they decide not to kick absolutely everything.

Oh yes.

The same way we exploited NZ by moving side to side with speed, we can get through SA. But we need to be super careful at ruck time. They're not as big thugs as they used to be, but they still hit those rucks super hard, and I wouldn't want to end up with Lawes and Wilson at 7...

Quick rucks the way to go, I think.

Think that's right, their pack isn't especially mobile unless Louw and Marx start. But they showed they like a counter ruck today.

Will SA start their better front row? They seem to be starting the inferior players and keeping those with talent on the bench.

Digby wrote:Will SA start their better front row? They seem to be starting the inferior players and keeping those with talent on the bench.

Doesn't seem likely at this stage

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:SA has a big midfield (including Pollard) so there’s possibly an argument to play the same side as we did in the QF, but after yesterday’s performance, it would incredibly harsh to drop anyone.

Aside from the enforced Spencer/Heinz change, I’d only be making minimal tweaks - maybe Kruis swapping with Lawes and Nowell over Slade on the bench. I’d also be fine if we left it as it was.

given how crap SA's defence was in the outside channels, I'd be looking at the best way of attacking that with the backs. I'm a bit hacked off with us taking so many outside backs when we now have a problem with unfit wingers and no cover at tight head. I'd want Lawes on from the start to halt any earlier saffer momentum, just in case they decide not to kick absolutely everything.

Absolutely agree. We should not be looking at getting into an arm-wrestle or trying to match SA - that is how we lose. We should be attacking them where they're weak and looking to demoralise them with early scores.

Puja

Injury changes only.
I don't see the need to make any other changes (maybe a specialist back3 player on the bench if there's even the slightest doubt over May). Certainly don't see the need to change anything based on fear of South Africa.

Let them fear us!

I'd have started Kruis in the important matches before the competition started but Lawes has been sensational. He was superb again yest, a performance that seems to have gone under the radar a bit from the marks and comments I've seen him given today. Itoje was majestic but Lawes was only fractionally behind him.

DeAllende is their biggest threat in the backs, it's great seeing LeRoux playing like he did for much of last season for Wasps. Whilst wondering if Eddie will revert to Faz at 10 I'm not sure he'll feel the need to stymie us in attack after that performance. We created a huge amount of opportunities yest. Eddie said pre-match that we attack better with Ford at 10 so even he's noticed it I also wonder if Lawes offers better cover tackling if deAllende does make the odd bust.

What's the injury situation with Kolbe btw?

Injury forced changes only. Will SA have the little fella back?

Just got to take the points and keep the scoreboard ticking over. Once they have to chase the game then we will make hay.

Back to pushing harder in defence? Yesterday we drifted plenty which stopped us getting done on the outside and was perhaps informative to them carrying into touch when the space NZ planned for just wasn't there. (Btw, Manu looks much more comfortable in the drift, who wouldn't I suppose)

I might be willing to start Wilson depending on how Underhill and Curry are during recovery. Lawes I wouldn't have expected to want over Kruis, but that is now the case. Ford has to play, no point trying to beat a more physical side by running hard at them if/when there are better opportunities

paddy no 11 wrote:

Digby wrote:Will SA start their better front row? They seem to be starting the inferior players and keeping those with talent on the bench.

Doesn't seem likely at this stage

It's bloody weird

If England get another fast start and build a lead then SA will have to open up a bit. No point in limiting the damage in a final. Hopefully we get a good game.

switchskier wrote:If England get another fast start and build a lead then SA will have to open up a bit. No point in limiting the damage in a final. Hopefully we get a good game.

Yeah, I hope for a fast start, too. Kolbe is a talent, though, so if he's available, they're a different proposition.

Really depends on which front row they decide to go with, though. The good one or the not so good one.

Really odd that they've left Kitschoff and Marx on the bench...

Stom wrote:

switchskier wrote:If England get another fast start and build a lead then SA will have to open up a bit. No point in limiting the damage in a final. Hopefully we get a good game.

Yeah, I hope for a fast start, too. Kolbe is a talent, though, so if he's available, they're a different proposition.

Really depends on which front row they decide to go with, though. The good one or the not so good one.

Really odd that they've left Kitschoff and Marx on the bench...

I'd say it was a case of the good one or the very good one. As we saw yesterday, both SA front rows are powerful and it probably does not mean all that much who starts. So far, the tactic of bringing on the better lot to blatter away at tiring opponents has worked.

Spiffy wrote:

Stom wrote:

switchskier wrote:If England get another fast start and build a lead then SA will have to open up a bit. No point in limiting the damage in a final. Hopefully we get a good game.

Yeah, I hope for a fast start, too. Kolbe is a talent, though, so if he's available, they're a different proposition.

Really depends on which front row they decide to go with, though. The good one or the not so good one.

Really odd that they've left Kitschoff and Marx on the bench...

I'd say it was a case of the good one or the very good one. As we saw yesterday, both SA front rows are powerful and it probably does not mean all that much who starts. So far, the tactic of bringing on the better lot to blatter away at tiring opponents has worked.

We're probably the least effective side to try that tactic on though, as Marler and Cole are probably the second best 17 and 18 in the competition and more than handy scrummagers.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Stom wrote:
Yeah, I hope for a fast start, too. Kolbe is a talent, though, so if he's available, they're a different proposition.

Really depends on which front row they decide to go with, though. The good one or the not so good one.

Really odd that they've left Kitschoff and Marx on the bench...

I'd say it was a case of the good one or the very good one. As we saw yesterday, both SA front rows are powerful and it probably does not mean all that much who starts. So far, the tactic of bringing on the better lot to blatter away at tiring opponents has worked.

We're probably the least effective side to try that tactic on though, as Marler and Cole are probably the second best 17 and 18 in the competition and more than handy scrummagers.

Puja

Yes - I'm sure Erasmus will have done his homework in this department and might just reverse the front rows for this game.

Be interesting to see if Louw and as a wild card RG Snyman come into the backrow mid way through the match.

Err. Yeah, I suppose so.

Snyman is big for a lock, so I'm going out on a limb to say there's an injury crisis if he goes into the backrow

jngf wrote:Be interesting to see if Louw and as a wild card RG Snyman come into the backrow mid way through the match.

This is basically just Itoje at 8 mkII ...

Scrumhead wrote:

jngf wrote:Be interesting to see if Louw and as a wild card RG Snyman come into the backrow mid way through the match.

This is basically just Itoje at 8 mkII ...

There is some logic here, Snyman actually has a pacy, linking and offloading string to his bow (Tom Croft style but in a big bok body shape).

On the other hand, it’s pretty illogical to suggest a player takes on an unfamiliar role that they don’t/haven’t play(ed) in a RWC final ...