RugbyRebels

I’m hearing a lot about Jack Willis and wondered how he compares to the current crop of England flankers: Underhill, Curry, Wilson and Ludlum - also what might Willis’ optimum position be if he were capped and which of our other flankers would he complement the most if played together with them?

(From YouTube higlights I’ve seen Willis’ strengths include breakdown work and size/physicality and of other flankers I’ve mentioned Underhill seems to match him most closely?)

jngf wrote:I’m hearing a lot about Jack Willis and wondered how he compares to the current crop of England flankers: Underhill, Curry, Wilson and Ludlum - also what might Willis’ optimum position be if he were capped and which of our other flankers would he complement the most if played together with them?

(From YouTube higlights I’ve seen Willis’ strengths include breakdown work and size/physicality and of other flankers I’ve mentioned Underhill seems to match him most closely?)

Had he not been injured quite badly (18 months ago?), I think he'd have been starting in the World Cup. He'd work well with all those guys, just depends on what kind of plan you have and the front five too.

I did the highlights from the Quins game on youtube, here's some from the bordeaux game:

I didn't do those ones.

Best of them all in the breakdown, not even willing to entertain questions there. Hard to say without seeing him at international, but I'd say his carrying is closer to Wilson/Ludlam level, which I'd say is just ahead of the other two, but it's close. Can put in big hits, but not as frequently as underhill.

I think he's fairly well rounded, and could complement any of them on the other flank. He's quite good at the lineout, so that may play as an advantage.

EDIT - He can play 8 too I believe.... Wonder what a Hill, Underhill, Willis combo would look like...

Raggs wrote:I did the highlights from the Quins game on youtube, here's some from the bordeaux game:

I didn't do those ones.

Best of them all in the breakdown, not even willing to entertain questions there. Hard to say without seeing him at international, but I'd say his carrying is closer to Wilson/Ludlam level, which I'd say is just ahead of the other two, but it's close. Can put in big hits, but not as frequently as underhill.

I think he's fairly well rounded, and could complement any of them on the other flank. He's quite good at the lineout, so that may play as an advantage.

EDIT - He can play 8 too I believe.... Wonder what a Hill, Underhill, Willis combo would look like...

Hill, Willis, Willis too

Willis the younger needs to keep developing a bit more, but he may be in the mix before the next world cup.

Backrow for England suddenly looks rather good. 12 still looks like a huge issue.

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:I did the highlights from the Quins game on youtube, here's some from the bordeaux game:

I didn't do those ones.

Best of them all in the breakdown, not even willing to entertain questions there. Hard to say without seeing him at international, but I'd say his carrying is closer to Wilson/Ludlam level, which I'd say is just ahead of the other two, but it's close. Can put in big hits, but not as frequently as underhill.

I think he's fairly well rounded, and could complement any of them on the other flank. He's quite good at the lineout, so that may play as an advantage.

EDIT - He can play 8 too I believe.... Wonder what a Hill, Underhill, Willis combo would look like...

Hill, Willis, Willis too

What about:
6. Willis
7. Curry
8.Willis
20. Curry

Raggs wrote:I did the highlights from the Quins game on youtube, here's some from the bordeaux game:

I didn't do those ones.

Best of them all in the breakdown, not even willing to entertain questions there. Hard to say without seeing him at international, but I'd say his carrying is closer to Wilson/Ludlam level, which I'd say is just ahead of the other two, but it's close. Can put in big hits, but not as frequently as underhill.

I think he's fairly well rounded, and could complement any of them on the other flank. He's quite good at the lineout, so that may play as an advantage.

EDIT - He can play 8 too I believe.... Wonder what a Hill, Underhill, Willis combo would look like...

Do you have a youtube channel?

Raggs wrote:I did the highlights from the Quins game on youtube, here's some from the bordeaux game:

I didn't do those ones.

Best of them all in the breakdown, not even willing to entertain questions there. Hard to say without seeing him at international, but I'd say his carrying is closer to Wilson/Ludlam level, which I'd say is just ahead of the other two, but it's close. Can put in big hits, but not as frequently as underhill.

I think he's fairly well rounded, and could complement any of them on the other flank. He's quite good at the lineout, so that may play as an advantage.

EDIT - He can play 8 too I believe.... Wonder what a Hill, Underhill, Willis combo would look like...

Really, I watched him play at the weekend and whereas he turned over a fair amount of ball he cost Wasps at least two penalties by failing to clear out opposition at the ruck, some work required there I would think, an obvious talent tho, it'll be interesting what to see what the wasps back row looks like when Thomas Young is back.

Raggs wrote:Willis the younger needs to keep developing a bit more, but he may be in the mix before the next world cup.

Backrow for England suddenly looks rather good. 12 still looks like a huge issue.

I like your thinking. Who you nominating? I think one the Currys.

It seemed absurd we have a flanker just nominated for WPOTY but I don’t think we’d actually miss him/them that hugely if they converted.

Numbers wrote:

Raggs wrote:I did the highlights from the Quins game on youtube, here's some from the bordeaux game:

I didn't do those ones.

Best of them all in the breakdown, not even willing to entertain questions there. Hard to say without seeing him at international, but I'd say his carrying is closer to Wilson/Ludlam level, which I'd say is just ahead of the other two, but it's close. Can put in big hits, but not as frequently as underhill.

I think he's fairly well rounded, and could complement any of them on the other flank. He's quite good at the lineout, so that may play as an advantage.

EDIT - He can play 8 too I believe.... Wonder what a Hill, Underhill, Willis combo would look like...

Really, I watched him play at the weekend and whereas he turned over a fair amount of ball he cost Wasps at least two penalties by failing to clear out opposition at the ruck, some work required there I would think, an obvious talent tho, it'll be interesting what to see what the wasps back row looks like when Thomas Young is back.

...Johnson looks like the guy to make way, he's always been um...'chunky' but now is the answer to 'who ate all the pies'....

twitchy wrote:

Raggs wrote:I did the highlights from the Quins game on youtube, here's some from the bordeaux game:

I didn't do those ones.

Best of them all in the breakdown, not even willing to entertain questions there. Hard to say without seeing him at international, but I'd say his carrying is closer to Wilson/Ludlam level, which I'd say is just ahead of the other two, but it's close. Can put in big hits, but not as frequently as underhill.

I think he's fairly well rounded, and could complement any of them on the other flank. He's quite good at the lineout, so that may play as an advantage.

EDIT - He can play 8 too I believe.... Wonder what a Hill, Underhill, Willis combo would look like...

Do you have a youtube channel?

Not exactly active:

Banquo wrote:

Numbers wrote:

Raggs wrote:I did the highlights from the Quins game on youtube, here's some from the bordeaux game:

I didn't do those ones.

Best of them all in the breakdown, not even willing to entertain questions there. Hard to say without seeing him at international, but I'd say his carrying is closer to Wilson/Ludlam level, which I'd say is just ahead of the other two, but it's close. Can put in big hits, but not as frequently as underhill.

I think he's fairly well rounded, and could complement any of them on the other flank. He's quite good at the lineout, so that may play as an advantage.

EDIT - He can play 8 too I believe.... Wonder what a Hill, Underhill, Willis combo would look like...

Really, I watched him play at the weekend and whereas he turned over a fair amount of ball he cost Wasps at least two penalties by failing to clear out opposition at the ruck, some work required there I would think, an obvious talent tho, it'll be interesting what to see what the wasps back row looks like when Thomas Young is back.

...Johnson looks like the guy to make way, he's always been um...'chunky' but now is the answer to 'who ate all the pies'....

And yet having Johnson on the field at the weekend, doing some tough carrying, actually put Wasps in a position to run the second placed side in the Top 14 pretty close. That kind of direct carrying, getting over the gainline is something that has been sorely lacking this year.

I think Wasps' best back row is:
6. Johnson
7. Willis
8. Vailanu

Willis is the first name on the Wasps team sheet for me.

If I've got Vailanu I'd have Willis, Shields and Vailanu. Shields has been looking better and better. Johnson on the bench to come on for Vailanu after 55.

Raggs wrote:If I've got Vailanu I'd have Willis, Shields and Vailanu. Shields has been looking better and better. Johnson on the bench to come on for Vailanu after 55.

What's happened to Carr?

I would add some of the positions Willis gets into over the ball look... sub-optimal for him if he wants to avoid injury. He must be quite a flexible lad, but he's asking an awful lot of his hamstrings, and he's risking both knee and ankle injury, I know they all are but he's getting over the ball so quickly he's not giving himself a chance to get in a good position because he's trying to be so quick in.

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:If I've got Vailanu I'd have Willis, Shields and Vailanu. Shields has been looking better and better. Johnson on the bench to come on for Vailanu after 55.

What's happened to Carr?

Nothing at all... maybe him at 6 then.

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:If I've got Vailanu I'd have Willis, Shields and Vailanu. Shields has been looking better and better. Johnson on the bench to come on for Vailanu after 55.

What's happened to Carr?

Nothing at all... maybe him at 6 then.

Does he look better at 6? My impression, and I'm sure you're paying rather more attention, is you'd want him to have as much ball in hand as possible so stick him at 8, or maybe don't pick him if he's not having the same impact

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:
What's happened to Carr?

Nothing at all... maybe him at 6 then.

Does he look better at 6? My impression, and I'm sure you're paying rather more attention, is you'd want him to have as much ball in hand as possible so stick him at 8, or maybe don't pick him if he's not having the same impact

In open and unstructured play yes, off the back of the scrum i lime Vailanus power.

Vailanu is close to the top of the stats for defenders beaten and offers Wasps a lot. Carr hasn't had the same impact this year, but is certainly very dynamic - though not in the same blunt force kind of way.

Willis is brilliant over the ball. He's very strong in the carry, doesn't seem to miss many tackles or give away dumb penalties.
He looks every inch a future England player.
He will surely go to Japan, assuming he is fit to do so.

fivepointer wrote:He will surely go to Japan, assuming he is fit to do so.

Variations of this statement on the board have been confusing the f*ck out of me for the past few days, as "take him to Japan" over the past 4 years has been synonymous with selection for the RWC. My brain keeps trying to parse it as such before remembering that we came, we saw, we came second, and then I'm sad.

Puja

Peej wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Numbers wrote:
Really, I watched him play at the weekend and whereas he turned over a fair amount of ball he cost Wasps at least two penalties by failing to clear out opposition at the ruck, some work required there I would think, an obvious talent tho, it'll be interesting what to see what the wasps back row looks like when Thomas Young is back.

...Johnson looks like the guy to make way, he's always been um...'chunky' but now is the answer to 'who ate all the pies'....

And yet having Johnson on the field at the weekend, doing some tough carrying, actually put Wasps in a position to run the second placed side in the Top 14 pretty close. That kind of direct carrying, getting over the gainline is something that has been sorely lacking this year.

I think Wasps' best back row is:
6. Johnson
7. Willis
8. Vailanu

Willis is the first name on the Wasps team sheet for me.

Fair enough, but I bet others are having to work very hard to allow him to pick and choose...

I’m sure he’s got a fair few areas he needs to sharpen up, he’s played only a handful of games over the last 18 months. But you’d take a couple of missed clear outs for someone that’s going to make 15+ tackles, 10 carries, 3 or 4 lineouts, hit rucks all day and turn the ball over at the breakdown 5+ times every single game.

Said it before, but of the all the brilliant young backrow’s we’ve got coming through at the moment, this bloke is my favourite. He’s a freak.

Yeah - I’m firmly in the Jack Willis appreciation society too. If he can replicate his Premiership/European form at test level, he’ll be pushing Curry and Underhill very hard. Bad news for Ludlam who is also a very good player but lacking the same game-changing ability of the other three. Earl is another who will push hard. With a run of games he’s looking good and has the pace, footwork and linking game to be an interesting alternative without a big compromise on power.

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:
Nothing at all... maybe him at 6 then.

Does he look better at 6? My impression, and I'm sure you're paying rather more attention, is you'd want him to have as much ball in hand as possible so stick him at 8, or maybe don't pick him if he's not having the same impact

In open and unstructured play yes, off the back of the scrum i lime Vailanus power.

Not seen a lot from Vailanu, but if you have him and Carr who's clearing rucks? It hasn't been a major feature of what Willis brings, to get back on point, you don't have JCW, Taylor isn't a clearer, Launch is, Gaskell isn't. Basically can you have Vailanu and Carr without Carr being at 7 to get Shields in, and if Carr is at 7 what of Willis and Young?

I'm also not really sure if Wasps are trying to build a base, or speed their game up