All-new Scotland Sevens and Re-start Efficiency Thread

[General Zod]

2019/20 Sevens starts this weekend in the modern slavery hotspot of Dubai.

So far we’ve been humped off Australia (good player for them called Hutchison - surely some Scottish blood?) and fared a wee bit better in a defeat to the USA, Carlin Isles finishing us off at the last.

Next up v Sevens circuit debutants Ireland later today for pool wooden spoon. Time to put a marker down, boys!

[General Zod]

Lost to Ireland, lost to Kenya. Off to Cape Town next week for another holiday. Good job, if you can get it.

[General Zod]

Boom! Have it!



More like it, lads.

[switchskier]

Good finish on that try. A skill that would translate to 15's.

Doesn't look like the core of bad sevens side with Lowe, Ferguson, Miller and Fife in there. How come results have been so poor and who else is in the side? McCann is widely touted for an eventual pro contract.

[General Zod]

Lost to Australia earlier today, but playing USA at around ten past eight this evening.

[General Zod]

Well here’s a headline that made my blood boil! Scotland, England and Wales sevens teams to merge...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... -3kmjrd5rr

To be fair, they say the SRU are still to come on board, and give a strange quote from the SRU that doesn’t really deal with the specific issue, but I’d be gutted if that happened. I certainly wouldn’t be watching the World sevens as much.

This isn’t the same as the Lions - it’s a proposal that entails giving up our very raison d’être. We’re either Scotland or we’re nothing.

[Big D]

Well here’s a headline that made my blood boil! Scotland, England and Wales sevens teams to merge...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... -3kmjrd5rr

To be fair, they say the SRU are still to come on board, and give a strange quote from the SRU that doesn’t really deal with the specific issue, but I’d be gutted if that happened. I certainly wouldn’t be watching the World sevens as much.

This isn’t the same as the Lions - it’s a proposal that entails giving up our very raison d’être. We’re either Scotland or we’re nothing.

The money has to come from somewhere. They certainly shouldn't be taking money from the grass roots "pot". They aren't going to take money from the S6 and can you imagine the outrage if Watson and say mini Horne leave the pro clubs because "well, we need to fund the sevens".

I like the sevens, but at this unprecedented time every aspect of the SRU spending needs assessed under a critical eye. If we are not getting value for money from the sevens then it should be questioned. There will be no doubt complaints about Dodson etc's salary but cutting there wage may not be enough to justify saving the sevens.

Not advocating binning the sevens but it is one of the more expendable areas of the pro game and whether we like it or not it is an Olympic sport and joining up as team GB, depending the details may open up another avenue of funding.

[septic 9]

Well here’s a headline that made my blood boil! Scotland, England and Wales sevens teams to merge...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... -3kmjrd5rr

To be fair, they say the SRU are still to come on board, and give a strange quote from the SRU that doesn’t really deal with the specific issue, but I’d be gutted if that happened. I certainly wouldn’t be watching the World sevens as much.

This isn’t the same as the Lions - it’s a proposal that entails giving up our very raison d’être. We’re either Scotland or we’re nothing.

The money has to come from somewhere. They certainly shouldn't be taking money from the grass roots "pot". They aren't going to take money from the S6 and can you imagine the outrage if Watson and say mini Horne leave the pro clubs because "well, we need to fund the sevens".

I like the sevens, but at this unprecedented time every aspect of the SRU spending needs assessed under a critical eye. If we are not getting value for money from the sevens then it should be questioned. There will be no doubt complaints about Dodson etc's salary but cutting there wage may not be enough to justify saving the sevens.

Not advocating binning the sevens but it is one of the more expendable areas of the pro game and whether we like it or not it is an Olympic sport and joining up as team GB, depending the details may open up another avenue of funding.

unprecedented time indeed but we shouldn't be pushed by a power and cash grab from the RFU.

Our 7s squad are not highly paid- quite the opposite, and I believe that travel and hotels are paid by WR (who make a nice packet out of the 7s). Funding for the Olympic team GB is not dependent on team GB 7s being there all year every year. Wales have never really bought in wholly to the 7s tour, this would be an England dominated takeover and so would the funding (as it would nor doubt reflect numbers of players chosen and have no showcase for Scottish players above club 7s tournaments). We saw that in the last Olympic 7s (1 scot (who had no pro club) and 1 welsh from their 7s squads and one fully pro player each)

[Tobylerone]

Well here’s a headline that made my blood boil! Scotland, England and Wales sevens teams to merge...
it’s a proposal that entails giving up our very raison d’être. We’re either Scotland or we’re nothing.

It`s the nearest we`re going to get to a third Pro. squad.
Of course, some doubt its value as a development system, though have a feeling that NZ, with their (apparently) never ending stream of talent, would be reluctant to give it up.
Now a world wide spectator sport, can`t believe that the country that created the game would decline to play it.

[septic 9]

Well here’s a headline that made my blood boil! Scotland, England and Wales sevens teams to merge...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... -3kmjrd5rr

To be fair, they say the SRU are still to come on board, and give a strange quote from the SRU that doesn’t really deal with the specific issue, but I’d be gutted if that happened. I certainly wouldn’t be watching the World sevens as much.

This isn’t the same as the Lions - it’s a proposal that entails giving up our very raison d’être. We’re either Scotland or we’re nothing.

SRU confirm it ain't happening

[Cameo]

Good. I think the development angle gets overused as a test of the sevens programme. Great if it develops players but Scotland should be playing sevens because that is part of rugby. Some like it more than others but you can say that about a lot of things.

[Big D]

Well here’s a headline that made my blood boil! Scotland, England and Wales sevens teams to merge...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... -3kmjrd5rr

To be fair, they say the SRU are still to come on board, and give a strange quote from the SRU that doesn’t really deal with the specific issue, but I’d be gutted if that happened. I certainly wouldn’t be watching the World sevens as much.

This isn’t the same as the Lions - it’s a proposal that entails giving up our very raison d’être. We’re either Scotland or we’re nothing.

The money has to come from somewhere. They certainly shouldn't be taking money from the grass roots "pot". They aren't going to take money from the S6 and can you imagine the outrage if Watson and say mini Horne leave the pro clubs because "well, we need to fund the sevens".

I like the sevens, but at this unprecedented time every aspect of the SRU spending needs assessed under a critical eye. If we are not getting value for money from the sevens then it should be questioned. There will be no doubt complaints about Dodson etc's salary but cutting there wage may not be enough to justify saving the sevens.

Not advocating binning the sevens but it is one of the more expendable areas of the pro game and whether we like it or not it is an Olympic sport and joining up as team GB, depending the details may open up another avenue of funding.

unprecedented time indeed but we shouldn't be pushed by a power and cash grab from the RFU.

Our 7s squad are not highly paid- quite the opposite, and I believe that travel and hotels are paid by WR (who make a nice packet out of the 7s). Funding for the Olympic team GB is not dependent on team GB 7s being there all year every year. Wales have never really bought in wholly to the 7s tour, this would be an England dominated takeover and so would the funding (as it would nor doubt reflect numbers of players chosen and have no showcase for Scottish players above club 7s tournaments). We saw that in the last Olympic 7s (1 scot (who had no pro club) and 1 welsh from their 7s squads and one fully pro player each)

I like the 7s and would keep them, all I was really saying is it should still be viewed with a critical eye. As should all areas where the SRU spend money.

[Big D]

Well here’s a headline that made my blood boil! Scotland, England and Wales sevens teams to merge...
it’s a proposal that entails giving up our very raison d’être. We’re either Scotland or we’re nothing.

It`s the nearest we`re going to get to a third Pro. squad.
Of course, some doubt its value as a development system, though have a feeling that NZ, with their (apparently) never ending stream of talent, would be reluctant to give it up.
Now a world wide spectator sport, can`t believe that the country that created the game would decline to play it.

Should the Super 6 reach a decent level it may hurt the 7s. It is probably more important that players play 15s to a decent level to prepare for the step up rather than 7s.

[Croft_No.5]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53526629

[General Zod]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53526629

Although I do fee sorry for the people involved, it’s still deserves one of those smilies!

[af73]

Indeed.

Maybe one...or even two of them might get a place in the SRU run, coached and selected GB squad for the next Olympics.

On a more serious note, England can't sustain a season long World Series commitment...so Scotland and Wales should also give up their spots in solidarity?

[septic 9]

Indeed.

Maybe one...or even two of them might get a place in the SRU run, coached and selected GB squad for the next Olympics.

On a more serious note, England can't sustain a season long World Series commitment...so Scotland and Wales should also give up their spots in solidarity?

It'll be our fault. If we had agreed to a team GB 7s RFU would have had funding from UK Sport and been able to pay their players. Or something.

[Big D]

Thanks to a big dollop of lottery money GB will field a 7s team all next season. Scott Forrest to coach the womans team.

Seems like a sensible business decision.

[septic 9]

Thanks to a big dollop of lottery money GB will field a 7s team all next season. Scott Forrest to coach the womans team.

Seems like a sensible business decision.

GB will filed a 7s team, we won't. That the 7s squad effectively out of a job except the one token (2 if we if we are seriously lucky) of token player. So it will be as predicted a shed load of cash to fund an essentially English 7s team. A team will see continuity for Eng 7s, while we will have to rebuild from scratch.
There will now be a big push from WR and SANZAR unions to maintain a GB team into future seasons, ensure cost cutting by limiting teams on the 7s world series so they can all be completed in 2 days

Its a short term way to save some money, and a long term way to shut down our 7s team.

[Puja]

Thanks to a big dollop of lottery money GB will field a 7s team all next season. Scott Forrest to coach the womans team.

Seems like a sensible business decision.

GB will filed a 7s team, we won't. That the 7s squad effectively out of a job except the one token (2 if we if we are seriously lucky) of token player. So it will be as predicted a shed load of cash to fund an essentially English 7s team. A team will see continuity for Eng 7s, while we will have to rebuild from scratch.
There will now be a big push from WR and SANZAR unions to maintain a GB team into future seasons, ensure cost cutting by limiting teams on the 7s world series so they can all be completed in 2 days

Its a short term way to save some money, and a long term way to shut down our 7s team.

I don't know about that - the RFU pulled the plug on England 7s fairly abruptly and a good chunk of our players have had to go find employment elsewhere.

Puja

[Big D]

Thanks to a big dollop of lottery money GB will field a 7s team all next season. Scott Forrest to coach the womans team.

Seems like a sensible business decision.

GB will filed a 7s team, we won't. That the 7s squad effectively out of a job except the one token (2 if we if we are seriously lucky) of token player. So it will be as predicted a shed load of cash to fund an essentially English 7s team. A team will see continuity for Eng 7s, while we will have to rebuild from scratch.
There will now be a big push from WR and SANZAR unions to maintain a GB team into future seasons, ensure cost cutting by limiting teams on the 7s world series so they can all be completed in 2 days

Its a short term way to save some money, and a long term way to shut down our 7s team.

We are struggling to fund our 15s sides correctly and hold onto any talent. In the current climate we have made a business decision to access funding. If the guys playing 7s aren't good enough to crack the GB team then that is on them. The 7s players who have made a career out of 7s have had a decent run and those that have 15s ambitions will have a crack at Edinburgh and Glasgow.

I understand the romantic side of the 7s for us, but the money that funds that can be more effectively used elsewhere in the short term (pro sides, grass roots clubs etc). It has been two full seasons plus an aborted season since the 7s side made it higher than 10th in the rankings, and in truth bar a handful of good performances over the last 4.5 world series we have been very poor.

Sure there are some who have had a brief time in the 7s before cracking Scotland but most would have made it anyway.

I don't think the 7s would be missed for a year. The long term effects can probably be debated long and hard either way.

[General Zod]

Well, I guess the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. Will we really see the return of Scotland 7s? Ah hae ma doots.

Would be gutted if we ended up as an occasional thistle-branded bounce team trotted out for the Empire Games. I enjoy 7s and see it as key to growing rugby.

[Big D]

Well, I guess the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. Will we really see the return of Scotland 7s? Ah hae ma doots.

Would be gutted if we ended up as an occasional thistle-branded bounce team trotted out for the Empire Games. I enjoy 7s and see it as key to growing rugby.

But the SRU haven't treated it that way. The Melrose 7s appears once a year hidden on BBC 2 at best. If it was being used to drive youth involvement and interest in clubs then great. But there are fewer and fewer 7s circuits than previous times.

Clearly in an ideal world we'd keep the 7s on. So would have England.

The reality is all the SRU have taken pay cuts, we have a S6 that needs to get back up and running and for many years local clubs have tried to pick up the slack for lack of local council funding and they are now struggling.

Very few parts of what the SRU do should not be under review, particularly parts that can be temporarily mothballed and paid for by others.

If the yessers are to be believed this will be the last Olympics as a team GB anyway.

[General Zod]

Well, I guess the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. Will we really see the return of Scotland 7s? Ah hae ma doots.

Would be gutted if we ended up as an occasional thistle-branded bounce team trotted out for the Empire Games. I enjoy 7s and see it as key to growing rugby.

But the SRU haven't treated it that way. The Melrose 7s appears once a year hidden on BBC 2 at best. If it was being used to drive youth involvement and interest in clubs then great. But there are fewer and fewer 7s circuits than previous times.

Clearly in an ideal world we'd keep the 7s on. So would have England.

The reality is all the SRU have taken pay cuts, we have a S6 that needs to get back up and running and for many years local clubs have tried to pick up the slack for lack of local council funding and they are now struggling.

Very few parts of what the SRU do should not be under review, particular parts that can be temporarily mothballed and paid for by others.

If the yessers are to be believed this will be the last Olympics as a team GB anyway.

Well, yeah. Reading back my post, I’m surprised I didn’t go on to make that point too! And tie it in to Brexit while I was at it! Anyway, all that carry on aside, it would grieve me greatly if they just let sevens die a quiet death.

I don’t think the SRU have made the most of sevens as a development tool for participation, and have a chance to change their approach in the new world when people will be gagging for a runaround (and maybe even a club to join).

[Cameo]

Seems a reasonable decision for a year but I really hope it is not long term

I think 7s get's tied up in knots with the development question. Yeah, it's great if it leads to more good 15s players but 7s is a type of rugby and, as such, I want Scotland to be involved in it and do well. The development is a bonus that helps justify spending more on it.