Leicester vs Exeter

[Puja]

Leicester: Veainu; Thompstone, Tuilagi, Reid, May; Ford, Youngs; Genge, Youngs (capt), Cole, Lavanini, Spencer, Green, Taufua, Kalamafoni.

Replacements: Polota-Nau, Gigena, Leatigaga, Wells, Reffell, White, Hardwick, Worth

Exeter: Hogg; Woodburn, Slade (capt), Devoto, Whitten; Steenson, Maunder; Moon, Taione, Williams, Kirsten, Hill, Armand, Vermeulen, Kvesic.

Replacements: Cooper, Keast, Pieretto, Dennis, Lonsdale, Townsend, Hill, Hendrickson

[Oakboy]

Might we see Slade at FH at some point, looking at the bench?

[fivepointer]

Yep, no FH cover so Slade will move there if required. Exe doing a fair bit of rotating for this one.
Pieretto is a new name to me.
Devoto back is a welcome sight.

[Puja]

Might we see Slade at FH at some point, looking at the bench?

Once they're 30 points up, they'll have the leeway to do that. Mind, Devoto's played 10 more recently, hasn't he?

Puja

[Oakboy]

Might we see Slade at FH at some point, looking at the bench?

Once they're 30 points up, they'll have the leeway to do that. Mind, Devoto's played 10 more recently, hasn't he?

Puja

Really? Can't remember ever seeing him play there.

[Banquo]

are both Simmonds crocked or rested?
Sam Hill a little unlucky, been playing well, although a little more one dimensional than Devoto, but very effective.

[Scrumhead]

Great game so far. So much better than I expected.

Ford, Tuilagi, Genge and May all looking like England players. Taufua and Veainu looking good too.

[twitchy]

Full time 22-31. Hill motm. Great comeback from exe.

[fivepointer]

Tigers fell away quite badly after h/t as Exe took a grip on the game. More positives than negatives for Leicester but they have to work harder to maintain control, or to try and move momentum back their way.
Excellent result for Exe with a much changed side and after being 19-7 down. Thought Devoto looked good on his first game back. Worrying injury for Slade.

[Oakboy]

Some points to consider:

Ford and Youngs are flaky?
Kvesic is physically lacking?
Armand is one hell of a lineout asset.
Tuilagi is special if he's really up for it, otherwise not.
Genge is a liability from the neck up, one hell of a player from the neck down.
Murphy has not got long.

[Scrumhead]

How did I know the ‘Ford is flaky’ or something similar was coming? Change the goddamn record for Pete’s sake!

Did you watch the game? If you did, I’m curious to see how you think that Ford was anywhere remotely close to being the reason Tigers lost. You seem to be watching with a preconceived narrative.

I’m a long way from being Youngs’ biggest fan, but I don’t think he was to blame either. IMO, it looked like the team who were better drilled/more used to winning found a way to get on top and exploited that. More a case of Exeter seizing control than Tigers conceding it.

[Oakboy]

How did I know the ‘Ford is flaky’ or something similar was coming? Change the goddamn record for Pete’s sake!

Did you watch the game? If you did, I’m curious to see how you think that Ford was anywhere remotely close to being the reason Tigers lost. You seem to be watching with a preconceived narrative.

I’m a long way from being Youngs’ biggest fan, but I don’t think he was to blame either. IMO, it looked like the team who were better drilled/more used to winning found a way to get on top and exploited that. More a case of Exeter seizing control than Tigers conceding it.

You do bite so easily.

[Adam_P]

What happened with Genge and William's? Seen some stuff on Twitter suggesting something may have occurred but cant find any video evidence of anything

[Scrumhead]

How did I know the ‘Ford is flaky’ or something similar was coming? Change the goddamn record for Pete’s sake!

Did you watch the game? If you did, I’m curious to see how you think that Ford was anywhere remotely close to being the reason Tigers lost. You seem to be watching with a preconceived narrative.

I’m a long way from being Youngs’ biggest fan, but I don’t think he was to blame either. IMO, it looked like the team who were better drilled/more used to winning found a way to get on top and exploited that. More a case of Exeter seizing control than Tigers conceding it.

You do bite so easily.

In fairness, when I agree with you I’m just as quick to say so ...

[Oakboy]

How did I know the ‘Ford is flaky’ or something similar was coming? Change the goddamn record for Pete’s sake!

Did you watch the game? If you did, I’m curious to see how you think that Ford was anywhere remotely close to being the reason Tigers lost. You seem to be watching with a preconceived narrative.

I’m a long way from being Youngs’ biggest fan, but I don’t think he was to blame either. IMO, it looked like the team who were better drilled/more used to winning found a way to get on top and exploited that. More a case of Exeter seizing control than Tigers conceding it.

You do bite so easily.

In fairness, when I agree with you I’m just as quick to say so ...

Fair enough. If you notice, in my list of 'points' I put a question mark after the Ford/Youngs - flaky bit. Basically, that was because it was a point of debate in the BT build-up according to a remark in the commentary. I never listen to the build-up or HT chat so I cannot comment beyond the point in commentary to the effect that the pair are good in attack when things are going well but lacking otherwise.

I have always praised Ford's skill set and go back many years to the debate on this board of Ford v Burns. That was when Ford was pretty raw at Leicester and I was fully on his case, seeing exceptional potential. Now, I get flak for criticising Ford and I may be over the top in my disappointment around the extent to which I see him as having under-achieved. He has the ability to be so good as some of his play demonstrates. Unfortunately, though, I think he now has something missing in his make-up when it comes to managing a game for 80 minutes whatever the circumstances.

Despite what the majority opinion on this board might be Ford has lost out to Farrell in the competition for the England 10 shirt. We talk round and round the subject but that is reality. I maintain that with the right character and application, Ford should have won that battle but he has lost it (rather than Farrell has won it).

Youngs is just consistently bad for periods of games and whatever he does during better periods does not compensate.

Exeter were solid, consistent competitors for 80 minutes as usual but I thought the Leicester pack did enough to win that game had the territorial game plan been properly maintained by their 9/10 when it mattered. Maybe, Exeter's edge in the last 20 won them more psychological dominance than I am allowing for and I certainly wanted them to win. I thought it was significant that Exeter's 9/10 simply did the right thing at the right time for 80 minutes no matter what quality of ball was served up. I'm not sure Leicester could say the same about their pair. So, flaky? It's a fair question even if it's one I am echoing from the BT crew.

[Mellsblue]

If we can longer laud Ford, as he hasn’t claimed the Eng 10 shirt as his own, will you stop banging on about Armand and Cipriani?

[Oakboy]

If we can longer laud Ford, as he hasn’t claimed the Eng 10 shirt as his own, will you stop banging on about Armand and Cipriani?

Oi, it's the season of goodwill . . . . Oh, alright, then.

[Tigersman]

What happened with Genge and William's? Seen some stuff on Twitter suggesting something may have occurred but cant find any video evidence of anything

Nothing much just Genge having some pre match banter, and Rugby twitter got all high and mighty like they do with plenty of "this is bad sportmanship" "be an example to the children" "This isn't football" crap.

[Raggs]

How have we decided that Ford has lost the battle for the England 10 shirt?

[Which Tyler]

How have we decided that Ford has lost the battle for the England 10 shirt?

Because he only started 8 of our last 10 matches?
Or possibly because we lost 2 of those?
Maybe because only 2 of those 8 starts were amongst the top 3 performances by any England team ever?

[Digby]

What was the 2nd of the 3?

[Oakboy]

Er, when was the last time that Ford started at 10 with Farrell on the bench for a significant match?

[Puja]

If we can longer laud Ford, as he hasn’t claimed the Eng 10 shirt as his own, will you stop banging on about Armand and Cipriani?

Puja

[Puja]

Er, when was the last time that Ford started at 10 with Farrell on the bench for a significant match?

When was the last time Ford was shunted out of position to accomodate Farrell?

Puja

[Which Tyler]

What was the 2nd of the 3?

I was making allowances for anything I'd forgotten or never seen (of course, some would put 2003 final, or the 2003 Wellington matches up there as well, with good cause, but I don't think they were as good in terms of performance).
Personally I'd put NZ and Ire 2019 as the best 2 England performances I've ever seen