RugbyRebels

Go on then, I'll start. Anyone know when the England team is named/squad is whittled down?

Puja

Puja wrote:Go on then, I'll start. Anyone know when the England team is named/squad is whittled down?

Puja

Usually Thursday lunchtime

With a Sunday kick-off, maybe Friday midday?

My French pals are strangely quiet this time, no pre match banter. Either they are feeling quietly confident with their young team or are scared stiff of an impending thrashing!
I can't decide which!

Team is announced on Friday. I don't anticipate anything remotely adventurous.

I suppose it will be Farrell at 12 unfortunately. Will it be Youngs or Heinz at 9 (there's a bloody choice!)? Will Marler start? Might LCD get the 2 shirt? Where will Lawes play?

I am struggling to get excited about it, unfortunately.

We’ve just about got used to Farrell being shoe-horned into the team somewhere. Why not at 8?

1. Marler
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Lawes
7. Underhill
8. Curry

9. Youngs
10. Farrell (c)
11. May
12. Tuilagi
12. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Daly

16. Cowan-Dickie; 17. MVunipola; 18. Williams; 19. Launchbury; 20. Ludlam
21. Heinz; 22. Ford; 23. Devoto

This was a real chance to capture the imagination after the WC final. A chance to bring through some of the exciting youngsters into a core group of experienced players. A chance to get excited about a WC cycle from the get-go.

And we have an ultra-conservative squad with no 8 man.

We're going to see...

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Kruis
Lawes, Curry, Underhill
Youngs, Ford
May, Farrell, Tuilagi, Watson
Daly

LCD, Marler, Williams, Ewels, Ludlam, Heinz, Devoto, Thorley

Will Eddie find a place for the excellent Ted Hill? (instead of Lawes at 6, for example?!)

What's Joseph's form like? I'm really tempted by the idea of Devoto and Tuilagi together.

Not that Manu really has any form to speak of either.

Mikey Brown wrote:What's Joseph's form like? I'm really tempted by the idea of Devoto and Tuilagi together.

Not that Manu really has any form to speak of either.

He’s been playing ok, no more. What’s devotos like’?

Stom wrote:This was a real chance to capture the imagination after the WC final. A chance to bring through some of the exciting youngsters into a core group of experienced players. A chance to get excited about a WC cycle from the get-go.

And we have an ultra-conservative squad with no 8 man.

We're going to see...

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Kruis
Lawes, Curry, Underhill
Youngs, Ford
May, Farrell, Tuilagi, Watson
Daly

LCD, Marler, Williams, Ewels, Ludlam, Heinz, Devoto, Thorley

Who are you talking about specifically to ‘capture the imagination’? Other than Dombrandt there’s no (available) young player left out that is reasonably going to challenge the first choice 23.

Stom wrote:This was a real chance to capture the imagination after the WC final. A chance to bring through some of the exciting youngsters into a core group of experienced players. A chance to get excited about a WC cycle from the get-go.

And we have an ultra-conservative squad with no 8 man.

We're going to see...

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Kruis
Lawes, Curry, Underhill
Youngs, Ford
May, Farrell, Tuilagi, Watson
Daly

LCD, Marler, Williams, Ewels, Ludlam, Heinz, Devoto, Thorley

I'd be surprised if you were far wrong - unfortunately.

IMO, Jones should have cleared out some from the age/future viewpoint: Kruis, Youngs, Heinz.

He should have learned lessons: 1. Start with Marler for a solid set-piece and use Mako against tiring opposition, 2. Put Daly back on the wing with Watson at FB, 3. Bite the bullet on the 10 shirt and give up on Farrell at 12.

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:What's Joseph's form like? I'm really tempted by the idea of Devoto and Tuilagi together.

Not that Manu really has any form to speak of either.

He’s been playing ok, no more. What’s devotos like’?

Good from what I've seen. I wouldn't say I've followed any of the midfield contenders enough to say for certain, but the only one I've seen anything encouraging from recently in attack is Devoto. He seems to have some time on the ball and be able to make breaks or carry in traffic when required.

A 12 who can run, kick and pass would be nice, but no idea what he'll look like at this level.

Oakboy wrote:

Stom wrote:This was a real chance to capture the imagination after the WC final. A chance to bring through some of the exciting youngsters into a core group of experienced players. A chance to get excited about a WC cycle from the get-go.

And we have an ultra-conservative squad with no 8 man.

We're going to see...

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Kruis
Lawes, Curry, Underhill
Youngs, Ford
May, Farrell, Tuilagi, Watson
Daly

LCD, Marler, Williams, Ewels, Ludlam, Heinz, Devoto, Thorley

I'd be surprised if you were far wrong - unfortunately.

IMO, Jones should have cleared out some from the age/future viewpoint: Kruis, Youngs, Heinz.

He should have learned lessons: 1. Start with Marler for a solid set-piece and use Mako against tiring opposition, 2. Put Daly back on the wing with Watson at FB, 3. Bite the bullet on the 10 shirt and give up on Farrell at 12.

I would have no issue with some fresh blood at SH, but it is reasonable to point out that there’s nobody exactly demanding inclusion at the moment. Who would you have picked?

You would have got rid of Kruis because you don’t rate him, not because of he’s too old. He’s 29 and at his peak, no reason to bin him off because of age.

On the scrum, imo there’s too much fixation on the one game against SA. Only SA could do that to our scrum. Outside of that game we’ve had a very solid scrum setpiece for ages, both with and without Mako.

Timbo wrote:
I would have no issue with some fresh blood at SH, but it is reasonable to point out that there’s nobody exactly demanding inclusion at the moment. Who would you have picked?

You would have got rid of Kruis because you don’t rate him, not because of he’s too old. He’s 29 and at his peak, no reason to bin him off because of age.

On the scrum, imo there’s too much fixation on the one game against SA. Only SA could do that to our scrum. Outside of that game we’ve had a very solid scrum setpiece for ages, both with and without Mako.

I'd have picked Johnny Hill, Dombrandt, Simmonds, Robson and Spencer. The two SHs need a season at 9/21 and sod the consequences. We have to move on, IMO.

I'd leave Kruis out because he's said he's off to Japan at the end of the season.

The SA game just proved the point for me. I've advocated starting Marler ever since he came back in (even IF I was in a minority of one!!!

My viable but optimistic team:

1. Mako
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Lawes (assuming Kruis is off to Japan)
5. Itoje
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Earl (the optimistic bit)

9. Who cares
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi
14. May
15. Watson

LCD, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Hill, Who cares, Joseph, Thorley

Launch is injured.

Oakboy wrote:

Timbo wrote:
I would have no issue with some fresh blood at SH, but it is reasonable to point out that there’s nobody exactly demanding inclusion at the moment. Who would you have picked?

You would have got rid of Kruis because you don’t rate him, not because of he’s too old. He’s 29 and at his peak, no reason to bin him off because of age.

On the scrum, imo there’s too much fixation on the one game against SA. Only SA could do that to our scrum. Outside of that game we’ve had a very solid scrum setpiece for ages, both with and without Mako.

I'd have picked Johnny Hill, Dombrandt, Simmonds, Robson and Spencer. The two SHs need a season at 9/21 and sod the consequences. We have to move on, IMO.

I'd leave Kruis out because he's said he's off to Japan at the end of the season.

The SA game just proved the point for me. I've advocated starting Marler ever since he came back in (even IF I was in a minority of one!!!

Kruis hasn’t said anything yet as far as I’m aware? Just rumours at this stage I thought.

Yeah, I’m sanguine about the likes of Jonny Hill over Moon/Ewels or Simmonds over Earl/Ludlam....all perfectly good options and you’ve got to allow a coach a little bit of leeway given he has access to info we don’t.

I’m slightly regretful over Dombrandt, as he seems a freakish and exciting talent.

I’d have a horses for courses selection policy with Mako and Marler, but also conscious of the fact that really want to get Genge more involved as he looks like his game has gone up a notch since the World Cup. Genge will also be at his peak in 2023.

Oakboy wrote:

Timbo wrote:
I would have no issue with some fresh blood at SH, but it is reasonable to point out that there’s nobody exactly demanding inclusion at the moment. Who would you have picked?

You would have got rid of Kruis because you don’t rate him, not because of he’s too old. He’s 29 and at his peak, no reason to bin him off because of age.

On the scrum, imo there’s too much fixation on the one game against SA. Only SA could do that to our scrum. Outside of that game we’ve had a very solid scrum setpiece for ages, both with and without Mako.

I'd have picked Johnny Hill, Dombrandt, Simmonds, Robson and Spencer. The two SHs need a season at 9/21 and sod the consequences. We have to move on, IMO.

I'd leave Kruis out because he's said he's off to Japan at the end of the season.

The SA game just proved the point for me. I've advocated starting Marler ever since he came back in (even IF I was in a minority of one!!!

I’ve also argued in the past for a horses for courses approach at loosehead. Mako is the better player, but against the better scrummaging sides, I prefer only one of Mako and Sinckler to start. Marler is a far better alternative than any of our tightheads after Sinckler, so I’m totally fine with him starting and Mako coming on as an impact sub.

Against France, I’m not sure Bamba is the type of threat that warrants swapping out Mako though.

I’d go with:

1. Mako
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi
14. Daly
15. Watson

16. Cowan-Dickie 17. Marler 18. Williams 19. Lawes 20. Ludlam 21. Heinz 22. Devoto 23. Thorley

Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Hill
Underhill
Curry
Youngs
Ford
May
Devoto
Tuilagi
Watson
Daly

LCD
Genge
Stuart
Ewels
Earl
Beans
Farrell
Thorley

I'd like though to find a place for Joseph, and still more to have some other options at 8 and 9

Digby wrote:Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Hill
Underhill
Curry
Youngs
Ford
May
Devoto
Tuilagi
Watson
Daly

LCD
Genge
Stuart
Ewels
Earl
Beans
Farrell
Thorley

I'd like though to find a place for Joseph, and still more to have some other options at 8 and 9

Why Daly at 15, out of interest? Surely now is the ideal time to end the doomed experiment?

Puja

Agreed on Daly. Give someone else a go there.

I know it’s the wrong Curry brother but I think this game is the right time to try him at scrumhalf.

So I’m going for-

1. Marler
2. George
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Hill
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Curry
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Devoto
13. Tuilagi
14. Watson
15. May I guess?

LCD, Mako, Williams, Lawes, Ludlum/Seymour/Saull, Heinz, Farrell, Thorley

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Hill
Underhill
Curry
Youngs
Ford
May
Devoto
Tuilagi
Watson
Daly

LCD
Genge
Stuart
Ewels
Earl
Beans
Farrell
Thorley

I'd like though to find a place for Joseph, and still more to have some other options at 8 and 9

Why Daly at 15, out of interest? Surely now is the ideal time to end the doomed experiment?

Puja

I'm not averse to trying someone else. Though I'm also not sold he's failed there or anyone is obviously better

Obviously, the team I'd pick would include players Eddie hasn't picked. But it'd probably look something like...

Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Lawes
Curry
Underhill
Dombrandt
Robson
Ford
May
Devoto
Joseph
Daly
Watson

Thacker, Genge, Stuart, Ewels, THill, Mitchell, Smith, Tuilagi