RugbyRebels

So who is getting the job for the summer.

Or will we get malinder to cover the summer when we wait for the right guy?

Doubt cockeril will do it
Stuart Lancaster might be a shout if he is mental

Based on the England game?

Definitely not Cockerill if we think the problem is invention from 5m out?

Having said that - the Russell article has shifted me a bit. Not really the handling of the incident as there may be more sides to that but the description of the tactics and game plan. Despite a few murmurs recently, I just didn't think GT would be that rigid.

If GT goes, I say go all out to get Robertson from the Crusaders. He might be wanting to prove he has what it takes for international rugby before the ABs job comes up again.

England are after this guy...

https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Britishan ... t-20200209

Cameo wrote:Based on the England game?

Definitely not Cockerill if we think the problem is invention from 5m out?

That should be the remit of an attack coach. I doubt RC would bring Hodge with him.

I'd leave RC where he is though.

Cameo wrote:Having said that - the Russell article has shifted me a bit. Not really the handling of the incident as there may be more sides to that but the description of the tactics and game plan. Despite a few murmurs recently, I just didn't think GT would be that rigid.

If GT goes, I say go all out to get Robertson from the Crusaders. He might be wanting to prove he has what it takes for international rugby before the ABs job comes up again.

I don't think Robertson would be interested but I'm an advocate of if you dont ask you wont get so I'm all for approaching him.

Definitely go for Robertson, not being disingenuous here but a serious sports psychologist is also needed, yer ability to grab defeat from the jaws of victory is mostly psychological

paddy no 11 wrote:Definitely go for Robertson, not being disingenuous here but a serious sports psychologist is also needed, yer ability to grab defeat from the jaws of victory is mostly psychological

We have one apparently. They are focused on Finn's "alcohol problem"

Clearly their not very good at their job

It's a mess

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:Based on the England game?

Definitely not Cockerill if we think the problem is invention from 5m out?

That should be the remit of an attack coach. I doubt RC would bring Hodge with him.

I'd leave RC where he is though.

From memory, he wasn't great at working with a range of attack coaches at Leicester either. Scoring tries against good teams should also concern the head coach I would think too. It's not just the backs either, Edinburgh's forwards play very slowly which works when they can grind a team into the dust but less so when they are matched.

I’ve been in the camp supporting Toony as he seems a smart bloke open and willing to challenge convention and bring in ideas from other sports and successful environments.

The success of Glasgow and the attractiveness of their play under his watch also made me pre-disposed to believe he could be successful at Test level.

However...it does look like he is struggling to make the team better than the sum of the parts. In many ways Russell is a sideshow, but Toonys position does look increasingly untenable if we finish up 5th or 6th in this championship,

I think Cockerill would be a mistake but I do hear whisperings that he is being lined up. It is also consistent with the SRUs MO of hiring from within. They should really look globally for the best for the job a la Wales/Garland post Gyppocaust or Ireland/Schmidt; fuck the cost; be ambitious.

Let’s see but I fear that the SRU will be pragmatic rather than shooting for the moon.

ARM wrote:I’ve been in the camp supporting Toony as he seems a smart bloke open and willing to challenge convention and bring in ideas from other sports and successful environments.

The success of Glasgow and the attractiveness of their play under his watch also made me pre-disposed to believe he could be successful at Test level.

However...it does look like he is struggling to make the team better than the sum of the parts. In many ways Russell is a sideshow, but Toonys position does look increasingly untenable if we finish up 5th or 6th in this championship,

I think Cockerill would be a mistake but I do hear whisperings that he is being lined up. It is also consistent with the SRUs MO of hiring from within. They should really look globally for the best for the job a la Wales/Garland post Gyppocaust or Ireland/Schmidt; fuck the cost; be ambitious.

Let’s see but I fear that the SRU will be pragmatic rather than shooting for the moon.

Basically sums up my thinking. I am just beginning to wonder whether I was right to see Townsend as open to ideas.

Now I am not optimistic about him staying and not optimistic about him going if it means Cockerill coming in.

ARM wrote:I’ve been in the camp supporting Toony as he seems a smart bloke open and willing to challenge convention and bring in ideas from other sports and successful environments.

The success of Glasgow and the attractiveness of their play under his watch also made me pre-disposed to believe he could be successful at Test level.

However...it does look like he is struggling to make the team better than the sum of the parts. In many ways Russell is a sideshow, but Toonys position does look increasingly untenable if we finish up 5th or 6th in this championship,

I think Cockerill would be a mistake but I do hear whisperings that he is being lined up. It is also consistent with the SRUs MO of hiring from within. They should really look globally for the best for the job a la Wales/Garland post Gyppocaust or Ireland/Schmidt; fuck the cost; be ambitious.

Let’s see but I fear that the SRU will be pragmatic rather than shooting for the moon.

Schmidt was not even a head coach when Ireland picked him up. He was second in command to Cotter. They basically lucked out.

ARM wrote:I’ve been in the camp supporting Toony as he seems a smart bloke open and willing to challenge convention and bring in ideas from other sports and successful environments.

The success of Glasgow and the attractiveness of their play under his watch also made me pre-disposed to believe he could be successful at Test level.

However...it does look like he is struggling to make the team better than the sum of the parts. In many ways Russell is a sideshow, but Toonys position does look increasingly untenable if we finish up 5th or 6th in this championship,

I think Cockerill would be a mistake but I do hear whisperings that he is being lined up. It is also consistent with the SRUs MO of hiring from within. They should really look globally for the best for the job a la Wales/Garland post Gyppocaust or Ireland/Schmidt; fuck the cost; be ambitious.

Let’s see but I fear that the SRU will be pragmatic rather than shooting for the moon.

I would actually be happy with Cockerill with his own choice of assistant and coaches, but would hope that he would stick with Steve Tandy as defence coach and Pieter De Villiers as Scrum Coach. Whoever gets the job after the 6N (I'm fairly certain GT position is now untenable as we will only win one, in fact we might not win that so that would mean 5th last year, bottom this year and a abysmal World Cup) would need to be given at least 4yrs so he can build towards the next world cup.

I will say that I'm not in favour of sacking coaches after 2-3yrs but imho, GT needs sacked as he is as bad as Matt Williams. I gave him upto the world cup butafter that, my patience has finally run out.

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:

ARM wrote:I’ve been in the camp supporting Toony as he seems a smart bloke open and willing to challenge convention and bring in ideas from other sports and successful environments.

The success of Glasgow and the attractiveness of their play under his watch also made me pre-disposed to believe he could be successful at Test level.

However...it does look like he is struggling to make the team better than the sum of the parts. In many ways Russell is a sideshow, but Toonys position does look increasingly untenable if we finish up 5th or 6th in this championship,

I think Cockerill would be a mistake but I do hear whisperings that he is being lined up. It is also consistent with the SRUs MO of hiring from within. They should really look globally for the best for the job a la Wales/Garland post Gyppocaust or Ireland/Schmidt; fuck the cost; be ambitious.

Let’s see but I fear that the SRU will be pragmatic rather than shooting for the moon.

I would actually be happy with Cockerill with his own choice of assistant and coaches, but would hope that he would stick with Steve Tandy as defence coach and Pieter De Villiers as Scrum Coach. Whoever gets the job after the 6N (I'm fairly certain GT position is now untenable as we will only win one, in fact we might not win that so that would mean 5th last year, bottom this year and a abysmal World Cup) would need to be given at least 4yrs so he can build towards the next world cup.

I will say that I'm not in favour of sacking coaches after 2-3yrs but imho, GT needs sacked as he is as bad as Matt Williams. I gave him upto the world cup butafter that, my patience has finally run out.

I'm coming round to thinking GT will have to be replaced but I find this line of thinking strange. "I gave him up to the world cup...my patience has finally run out"

It's very generous of you to give him up to the world cup after one very good 6N (by any reasonable standards) and one disappointing one (but with some upsides and a terrible injury list). The world cup was bad but we are now 2 matches into a tournament and have had close losses to two teams we almost always lose to.

Townsend and M Williams are just not comparable. Fine, we have a better set of players than then but so does the competition. I can be persuaded that the atmosphere has deteriorated and GT won't improve it but this idea that he has presided over unmitigated disaster is nonsense.

If he’s replaced soon and if it is cockerill, I wouldn’t be too worried about the latter’s supposed lack of creativity in the backs. Compared to Glasgow, he’s not had a lot to work with there. I can’t comment on what he was like at Leicester.

I would just let this season play out and see who is available and make the call. We could still win 3 in this championship.

Also, if Cockerill wins the challenge cup and the Pro14, his resumé looks a lot different!

Is it really even likely that Townsend will be judged so heavily (to the point of being ditched) based on this 6 nations with new coaches just put in place?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's been found wanting, but I don't get the impression there are top coaches cueing up to take the job. The SRU made such a big statement ditching Vern, I can't see them ditching GT soon.

I'm pretty sure Cockerill would add something very valuable to Scotland, but it wouldn't solve even half of our issues and would halt Edinburgh progress dead in its tracks. Just like with Robinson.

Mikey Brown wrote:Is it really even likely that Townsend will be judged so heavily (to the point of being ditched) based on this 6 nations with new coaches just put in place?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's been found wanting, but I don't get the impression there are top coaches cueing up to take the job. The SRU made such a big statement ditching Vern, I can't see them ditching GT soon.

I'm pretty sure Cockerill would add something very valuable to Scotland, but it wouldn't solve even half of our issues and would halt Edinburgh progress dead in its tracks. Just like with Robinson.

Agree with this.

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Maybe Erasmus was in Edinburgh for GT’s job? It’d be a hell of a coup if true!

I'm torn. On the one hand I think that GT has failed so far and the Russell saga gives me cause for concern. He wanted the job now because we have a talented group in their prime but that has only translated to maddening inconsistency.

However I also want to see some consistency at the top of Scottish rugby. The head coach needs to be someone with a vision and to be given time to implement it. GT had a vision but the chopping and changing of coaches hasn't helped at all.

I still think he has to go but its not that clear cut

For me I think toonie stays if he gets 2 out of the next 3 and actually it probabbly comes down to winning in Wales.

If he can win an away 6N game then I think he can stay

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:Definitely go for Robertson, not being disingenuous here but a serious sports psychologist is also needed, yer ability to grab defeat from the jaws of victory is mostly psychological

We have one apparently. They are focused on Finn's "alcohol problem"

says Finn. I doubt anyone else bar you of course thinks that is why he was referred to the team shrink. If it was down to that it would because the coaching and management team have good reasons to believe he has a drink problem - I have nothing to suggest he has except his insistence that he blew up over ordering another drink.

No-one else is saying it - he isn't in a good place mental health wise. Sound like a classic mental health issue, the victim stuff, etc .

he is better out of it for now TBH. He can't be helped until he wants to be helped. Until he comes to terms with he cannot hold his employer to ransom. And to terms with the fact that he is a player, not the coach

General Zod wrote: Also, if Cockerill wins the challenge cup and the Pro14, his resumé looks a lot different!

Very true - my concern at the moment is that he is seen as a bit of a saviour as he has taken Edinburgh from the doldrums to a respectable position. Others have failed (though not with quite as good a squad) so he deserves credit, but I don't see it as in any way showing suitability to be international coach.

Anyway, Townsend's statement today seems reasonable and our first two games have not been terrible performances. As you say, let's see how it goes. A couple of wins and everything looks a lot better.

Cameo wrote:

General Zod wrote: Also, if Cockerill wins the challenge cup and the Pro14, his resumé looks a lot different!

Very true - my concern at the moment is that he is seen as a bit of a saviour as he has taken Edinburgh from the doldrums to a respectable position. Others have failed (though not with quite as good a squad) so he deserves credit, but I don't see it as in any way showing suitability to be international coach.

Anyway, Townsend's statement today seems reasonable and our first two games have not been terrible performances. As you say, let's see how it goes. A couple of wins and everything looks a lot better.

Tend to agree regarding RC.

I think the league should play a lesser part compared to Europe in whether a coach is suitable for a national job. Particularly when it comes to the Pro 14. It is also why I'm not convinced Pivac will be all that for Wales.

Disagree on your last point unless it includes winning away in Wales. These last two games were games that were there for the taking. We played ireland at the best possible time and blew it.

General Zod wrote:England are after this guy...

https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Britishan ... t-20200209

If they do get him, South Africa will be fucked, seeing as how they've made a guy with no head coach experience the "Springboks Head Coach." On the other hand, that means Eddie can go make another team pretty damn decent and get the best out of them.