New Zealand vs England - Sunday 10th May

[Puja]

Or Saturday 14th June 2003, if you prefer.

New Zealand: D Howlett; J Rokocoko, M Nonu, T Umaga, C Ralph; C Spencer, J Marshall; D Hewett, A Oliver, G Somerville, C Jack, A Williams, R Thorne (capt), R McCaw, R So'oialo. Replacements: M Muliaina, D Carter, S Devine, J Collins, B Thorn, C Hoeft, K Mealamu.

England: J Lewsey; J Robinson, W Greenwood, M Tindall, B Cohen; J Wilkinson, K Bracken; G Rowntree, S Thompson, J Leonard, M Johnson, B Kay, R Hill, N Back, L Dallaglio. Replacements: D West, P Vickery, S Borthwick, J Worsley, A Gomarsall, P Grayson, D Luger.

Referee: Referee: Stuart Dickinson (Australia)


Anyone who is confused: http://rugbyrebels.co/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4512

https://discordapp.com/

Basically allows me to stream my laptop screen to you lot. You just need to download the program and I'll put a link and password to the stream on here (once I've got round to setting it up).

Here should be the link to the stream: https://discord.gg/uaxBxbP

If you all check it to make sure that it works okay - you should be able to log in now, it's just there'll be nothing happening till Sunday at 7.30pm.

[Puja]

Unfortunately, I was unable to source the full videos of the 2003 6N, so we're moving straight on to the summer tour. Full-strength New Zealand, at home, the first time we've played them there since the Tour of Hell with our 4ths in 1998. All the Kiwi fans crowing about how we only just beat their 2nd string at Twickenham and how our "arrogance" is gonna get shown up when they show us what a real championship side is like.

Should be fun.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Oooh. Looking forward to this one. I wonder what is going through Martin Johnson’s head.

[Puja]

Actually, just looking back at the Tour of Hell, Lewsey, Wlkinson, Vickery, and Moody were all debutants on that tour (albeit Moody didn't make an appearance, being left out for players like Richard Pool-Jones and Ben Sturnham). So it was clearly a formative experience for some of our RWC team. Shame it didn't have the same galvanising effect on the likes of Tom Beim and Jos Baxendell.

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

Spotting West on the bench there reminded of something. What happened to Greening at hooker? In my memory, he supplanted Cockerill and was part of the rampant 2000 and 2001 sides; was subsequently overtaken by Thompson and then disappeared. In my memory, West was very average (and old when he got into the squad). Was there some event that caused Greening to be dropped totally? He then briefly reappeared in the 7s side, right?

[Banquo]

Spotting West on the bench there reminded of something. What happened to Greening at hooker? In my memory, he supplanted Cockerill and was part of the rampant 2000 and 2001 sides; was subsequently overtaken by Thompson and then disappeared. In my memory, West was very average (and old when he got into the squad). Was there some event that caused Greening to be dropped totally? He then briefly reappeared in the 7s side, right?

He was one of a few who performed poorly in the delayed GS game v Ireland 2001, and SCW sent em away tae think again. Think he then picked up a toe injury which kept recurring and led to his retirement. Excellent in the loose, and was surprised he didn't reappear, but there were a few jettisoned by SCW, based on 'character'. He may have been one of those.

[Puja]

Spotting West on the bench there reminded of something. What happened to Greening at hooker? In my memory, he supplanted Cockerill and was part of the rampant 2000 and 2001 sides; was subsequently overtaken by Thompson and then disappeared. In my memory, West was very average (and old when he got into the squad). Was there some event that caused Greening to be dropped totally? He then briefly reappeared in the 7s side, right?

Greening was always a bit flaky on the actual hooker skills. Great around the pitch, but you wouldn't stake your life on him hitting a mark at the lineout. Thompson came along, offering exactly the same benefits and flaws as Greening, but with about 4st extra to aid his carrying impact, and we didn't need two of them.

West was underrated as a player - he'd've been first choice at most of the other clubs in England if he'd chosen to leave Leicester and would've got a lot more respect. His virtue over Greening was as a reliable option off the bench - he offered a bit round the park (more than Cockerill), but his core hooker skills were excellent and he had the mindset and experience to be able to come on and secure things and offer a steady pair of hands. With Thompson's darts, that was a useful thing to have.

Puja

[Digby]

Thompson wasn't the same around the pitch as Greening even if he was oddly mobile for an English hooker, and oddly mobile for anyone who's seen Steve Thompson.

I've always wondered if Greening beyond being a bit of a liability for coughing up pens and having a set piece that suggested he was a centre convert was deemed one of those energy sappers that Clive resolved never to pick again. Whatever it was a shame as I really enjoyed watching Greening play

[Digby]

And that's even odder if one considers Regan made the RWC squad, and not many have accused him of being good for morale

[loudnconfident]

Many thx! (Obvious point, but can you edit the thread title? April to May?)
Should be a good one. The "A" team had a good win on Monday in hostile environment

[Puja]

(Obvious point, but can you edit the thread title? April to May?)

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Mod

[Banquo]

Thompson wasn't the same around the pitch as Greening even if he was oddly mobile for an English hooker, and oddly mobile for anyone who's seen Steve Thompson.

I've always wondered if Greening beyond being a bit of a liability for coughing up pens and having a set piece that suggested he was a centre convert was deemed one of those energy sappers that Clive resolved never to pick again. Whatever it was a shame as I really enjoyed watching Greening play

That's the point I was making above. See also Archer.

[Mellsblue]

Thompson wasn't the same around the pitch as Greening even if he was oddly mobile for an English hooker, and oddly mobile for anyone who's seen Steve Thompson.

I've always wondered if Greening beyond being a bit of a liability for coughing up pens and having a set piece that suggested he was a centre convert was deemed one of those energy sappers that Clive resolved never to pick again. Whatever it was a shame as I really enjoyed watching Greening play

That's the point I was making above. See also Archer.

I think it did for Stimpson, too.

[Puja]

Thompson wasn't the same around the pitch as Greening even if he was oddly mobile for an English hooker, and oddly mobile for anyone who's seen Steve Thompson.

I've always wondered if Greening beyond being a bit of a liability for coughing up pens and having a set piece that suggested he was a centre convert was deemed one of those energy sappers that Clive resolved never to pick again. Whatever it was a shame as I really enjoyed watching Greening play

That's the point I was making above. See also Archer.

Mind, Archer was a mentalist and a liability, and not good enough to justify the risk of him.

Puja

[Banquo]

Thompson wasn't the same around the pitch as Greening even if he was oddly mobile for an English hooker, and oddly mobile for anyone who's seen Steve Thompson.

I've always wondered if Greening beyond being a bit of a liability for coughing up pens and having a set piece that suggested he was a centre convert was deemed one of those energy sappers that Clive resolved never to pick again. Whatever it was a shame as I really enjoyed watching Greening play

That's the point I was making above. See also Archer.

Mind, Archer was a mentalist and a liability, and not good enough to justify the risk of him.

Puja

yep, but he was favoured by SCW for a while, like Greening.

[Digby]

Phil Greening was favoured for a while by Natalie Imbruglia, which he might have liked more than being favoured by Clive

[Banquo]

Phil Greening was favoured for a while by Natalie Imbruglia, which he might have liked more than being favoured by Clive

Not torn up about that tbh

[Mellsblue]

I expect a comment from p/d before the day is out.

[Puja]

I expect a comment from p/d before the day is out.

It's like the Batsignal going up.

Puja

[jngf]

Thompson wasn't the same around the pitch as Greening even if he was oddly mobile for an English hooker, and oddly mobile for anyone who's seen Steve Thompson.

I've always wondered if Greening beyond being a bit of a liability for coughing up pens and having a set piece that suggested he was a centre convert was deemed one of those energy sappers that Clive resolved never to pick again. Whatever it was a shame as I really enjoyed watching Greening play

On the same vein what happened to the explosive hooker cum openside hybrid otherwise known as Andy Titteral? (the Harry Thacker of his day?)

[Digby]

outgunned by Lee Mears? or maybe it was the cunning of George Chuter

[Mr Mwenda]

Funny how the 2001 grand slam miss was apparently the one that did for so many reputations. I thought that was the most understandable blunder, coming in cold against an ireland team on their third game.

Archer was a nutter? I can't remember him really at all. Never seemed to disqualify Grewcock

[Puja]

Funny how the 2001 grand slam miss was apparently the one that did for so many reputations. I thought that was the most understandable blunder, coming in cold against an ireland team on their third game.

Archer was a nutter? I can't remember him really at all. Never seemed to disqualify Grewcock

Agreed, especially since our players were knackered from a poorly planned season and Lions tour giving them no rest time. Still, can't really criticise something that worked so well.

A quick google says that Archer is the third most carded player in the Premiership, with 2 reds and 14 yellows, despite playing in an era where a punch to the face wasn't even necessarily a card, let alone a red one. My enduring memory of him was that he wasn't even enforcer-dirty like Grewcock and occasionally Johnson were, but idiotic-dirty. He was the player who would be wound up and let off a haymaker in front of the ref.

Puja

[Digby]

Grewcock was also a markedly superior player to Archer, albeit perhaps not as strong

[Danno]

My google fu is lacking, could you share the top two?

I was entertained to see Lavanini's wiki page as the 5th/6th result when I googled "most cards rugby premiership". A glimpse of the future, today!