RugbyRebels

Read the whole story not just the headline, her house mates reported her too the police. What in the fuck?


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tod ... 68356.html

Did I miss where it says how old the foetus was?

OptimisticJock wrote:Did I miss where it says how old the foetus was?

No, but it's a good question. Destruction of a foetus outside the law is punishable in the rest of the UK as well. We don't have abortion in demand - at least in law - and we have laws against procuring a miscarriage. Trump is an arse who says what occurs to him at the time, but the logic of having restrictions on abortion is the criminalising of women who breach those.

How many women have criminal records as a result of this law? Do they get time for it?

morepork wrote:How many women have criminal records as a result of this law? Do they get time for it?

In NI? I've no idea. Most hop on a bus or plane to great Britain and have it done here.

For what it's worth I had a quick look to see if there were any cases in the Court of Appeal (Eng) about this and have found a recent case where a woman gave herself abortion drugs when near full term. Her original sentence of 8 years was decreased to 3.5 on appeal. There don't seem to be many such cases in the court of appeal.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

morepork wrote:How many women have criminal records as a result of this law? Do they get time for it?

In NI? I've no idea. Most hop on a bus or plane to great Britain and have it done here.

For what it's worth I had a quick look to see if there were any cases in the Court of Appeal (Eng) about this and have found a recent case where a woman gave herself abortion drugs when near full term. Her original sentence of 8 years was decreased to 3.5 on appeal. There don't seem to be many such cases in the court of appeal.

There's a lot to it I suppose but on the face of it. That is murder imo.

Now that's a purely black and white opinion not knowing anymore. Obviously there's much more to take in to account in a lot of cases.

OptimisticJock wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

morepork wrote:How many women have criminal records as a result of this law? Do they get time for it?

In NI? I've no idea. Most hop on a bus or plane to great Britain and have it done here.

For what it's worth I had a quick look to see if there were any cases in the Court of Appeal (Eng) about this and have found a recent case where a woman gave herself abortion drugs when near full term. Her original sentence of 8 years was decreased to 3.5 on appeal. There don't seem to be many such cases in the court of appeal.

There's a lot to it I suppose but on the face of it. That is murder imo.

Now that's a purely black and white opinion not knowing anymore. Obviously there's much more to take in to account in a lot of cases.

Legally you can't murder an unborn child. I can understand the sentiment.

Yes, that one case seems like one for the mental health files. Ewge, do you know if there are restrictions on using human embryonic material for research/medicine in NI?

morepork wrote:Yes, that one case seems like one for the mental health files. Ewge, do you know if there are restrictions on using human embryonic material for research/medicine in NI?

I'm not sure. A NI (resident) friend was on the HFEA so I presume it's a single entity with rules around the UK, but I don't actually know.

ETA, the woman wasn't mad - or at least not legally so - and had had late-ish terminations in the past and a habit of concealing her pregnancies. The one thing about an adversarial system is that it doesn't often miss the (legally) insane or unfit to stand trial. There is an argument to be had as to whether the bar is set too low, but I personally think it's where it has to be.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

morepork wrote:How many women have criminal records as a result of this law? Do they get time for it?

In NI? I've no idea. Most hop on a bus or plane to great Britain and have it done here.

For what it's worth I had a quick look to see if there were any cases in the Court of Appeal (Eng) about this and have found a recent case where a woman gave herself abortion drugs when near full term. Her original sentence of 8 years was decreased to 3.5 on appeal. There don't seem to be many such cases in the court of appeal.

Was the key element that that she was near full term? If she was past the 24 week cut off point then no legit abortion clinic would have helped her.

I'm assuming that the key problem here is the lack of abortion facilities in NI compared to the rest of the UK? I'd again assume that most women/ couples make the decision on abortion by 24 weeks; there aren't that many pregnancies that are unknown beyond that point not withstanding any health issues which IIRC remain a valid cause for abortion right up to the end of the pregnancy if a doctor agrees that its life threatening.

Sandydragon wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

morepork wrote:How many women have criminal records as a result of this law? Do they get time for it?

In NI? I've no idea. Most hop on a bus or plane to great Britain and have it done here.

For what it's worth I had a quick look to see if there were any cases in the Court of Appeal (Eng) about this and have found a recent case where a woman gave herself abortion drugs when near full term. Her original sentence of 8 years was decreased to 3.5 on appeal. There don't seem to be many such cases in the court of appeal.

Was the key element that that she was near full term? If she was past the 24 week cut off point then no legit abortion clinic would have helped her.

I'm assuming that the key problem here is the lack of abortion facilities in NI compared to the rest of the UK? I'd again assume that most women/ couples make the decision on abortion by 24 weeks; there aren't that many pregnancies that are unknown beyond that point not withstanding any health issues which IIRC remain a valid cause for abortion right up to the end of the pregnancy if a doctor agrees that its life threatening.

Abortion in NI is illegal save for immediate risk of death or permanent serious injury. I chose an English case beyond permissible term because that was the only equivalent I could think of to NI or the Trump position and my wife and I had been disputing whether women would be prosecuted in such cases.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote: In NI? I've no idea. Most hop on a bus or plane to great Britain and have it done here.

For what it's worth I had a quick look to see if there were any cases in the Court of Appeal (Eng) about this and have found a recent case where a woman gave herself abortion drugs when near full term. Her original sentence of 8 years was decreased to 3.5 on appeal. There don't seem to be many such cases in the court of appeal.

Was the key element that that she was near full term? If she was past the 24 week cut off point then no legit abortion clinic would have helped her.

I'm assuming that the key problem here is the lack of abortion facilities in NI compared to the rest of the UK? I'd again assume that most women/ couples make the decision on abortion by 24 weeks; there aren't that many pregnancies that are unknown beyond that point not withstanding any health issues which IIRC remain a valid cause for abortion right up to the end of the pregnancy if a doctor agrees that its life threatening.

Abortion in NI is illegal save for immediate risk of death or permanent serious injury. I chose an English case beyond permissible term because that was the only equivalent I could think of to NI or the Trump position and my wife and I had been disputing whether women would be prosecuted in such cases.

Interesting that NI would have a position on abortion that was more akin to the ROI than the UK. Given that in the English Law example the woman was prosecuted then I think that would settle the argument to a degree, although I also suspect that the Police and CPS would be very sympathetic in many cases.

I'd say that the Republic is much more liberal in almost all respects than the politicians of the North and probably than the majority of the people of the North.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:I'd say that the Republic is much more liberal in almost all respects than the politicians of the North and probably than the majority of the people of the North.

I recall fondly some of the more liberal attitudes in the North.

Did the ROI change its abortion laws? I remember a debate but not the outcome.

Sandydragon wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:I'd say that the Republic is much more liberal in almost all respects than the politicians of the North and probably than the majority of the people of the North.

I recall fondly some of the more liberal attitudes in the North.

Did the ROI change its abortion laws? I remember a debate but not the outcome.

I really can't remember either. However the Republic having equalised marriage we in the North have some way to go.

Googled it, apparently it's illegal in the Republic of Ireland as well.

Not that we have much to crow about down here in Enzed, when while it's technically legal, it's pretty fucking difficult to get one.

cashead wrote:Googled it, apparently it's illegal in the Republic of Ireland as well.

Not that we have much to crow about down here in Enzed, when while it's technically legal, it's pretty fucking difficult to get one.

I'm sure some private entity could take up the contract. They could couple it with charter schools.