RugbyRebels

Obviously early days, but my first impression is that this is going to change what we see quite a bit.

Looks like it’s going to be a field day for anyone who’s a half decent jackal and lots of players are going to need to be a lot more careful taking the ball in to contact.

Watching Naiyarovoro yesterday made me wonder whether this might actually limit the effectiveness of players used to making big carries in to traffic. Unless the support is there pretty much instantly, the risk of being isolated is huge.

I think referees were typically pretty generous this weekend (for example the Jono Ross turnover on Friday was a joke - he literally touched the ball for about 3 seconds and was never in a position to ‘lift the ball’ which I thought was essential) and will surely tighten up, but I can see this being a real game changer.

For England, it could be good news with us having a few good poachers to pick.

As per usual we'll see about a fortnight of it being applied fairly consistently but then it'll degenerate back to every ref "having their own interpretation" and we'll be back to it being a bit of a lottery.

I thought there were plenty of marginal calls over the weekend, but really that could happen during any round of games.
My main issues are supporting players just sealing off the ball, and players competing for possession when they are obviously not supporting their own bodyweight. If we can see that penalised more, then it will be a very good thing.
Penalty counts were high and this did have an adverse effect upon games. One hopes the players will get the message.

Are they actually 'new laws'?

Banquo wrote:Are they actually 'new laws'?

Just enforcing the gate/entry, staying on feet, harder on rolling away and wanting to see a positive attempt at the ball from the jackler.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote:Are they actually 'new laws'?

Just enforcing the gate/entry, staying on feet, harder on rolling away and wanting to see a positive attempt at the ball from the jackler.

That’s what I thought- I was wondering about the thread title tbh

OK. Fair point, but you all knew what I meant.

I’m with fivepointer. In the main, I felt like the refs were overly generous in favour of the defenders. As much as I love Willis, he was nowhere near supporting his body weight for at least one of the turnovers he got and sealing off was pretty rampant across all the games.

Scrumhead wrote:OK. Fair point, but you all knew what I meant.

I’m with fivepointer. In the main, I felt like the refs were overly generous in favour of the defenders. As much as I love Willis, he was nowhere near supporting his body weight for at least one of the turnovers he got and sealing off was pretty rampant across all the games.

I was merely seeking clarification . Its a quite important point though

I'm in favour of anything that speeds the game up and makes it safer. The new interpretation guidelines of the laws at the breakdown look to have merit but I suppose we need to wait to see whether refs stay strict and to see how 'cheats' get round it. I certainly approve of stopping 20st forwards diving in.

Two obvious sticking points remain: the caterpillar business and scrum resets.

100% agreed. The caterpillar rucks and the scrum resets are an absolute joke.

In dry conditions I’d be in favour of a maximum of one re-set. If it’s the conditions and the turf is cutting up, there’s a bit of leeway maybe but when it’s dry and props are collapsing because they get their technique wrong, they can’t just expect a reset.

I certainly don’t want to lose scrums, but god they need speeding up.

I’d like a tougher sanction for the player on the floor holding on to the ball to stop a legitimate turnover. A pen doesn’t seem to be enough of a deterrent in many situations.

Scrumhead wrote:100% agreed. The caterpillar rucks and the scrum resets are an absolute joke.

In dry conditions I’d be in favour of a maximum of one re-set. If it’s the conditions and the turf is cutting up, there’s a bit of leeway maybe but when it’s dry and props are collapsing because they get their technique wrong, they can’t just expect a reset.

I certainly don’t want to lose scrums, but god they need speeding up.

Referees can speed the game up in both of those areas of the decide to.

How many times do we hear a ref shout use it and then let the scrum half take another 30 seconds to take the box kick. Ping it once and ping it early and the scrum halfs will soon change.

Same with the scrums. Ask the players to form up as soon as you give the decision. For those that then waste time and mess about, freekick them. It'll only take one and they'll start forming up quicker.

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:100% agreed. The caterpillar rucks and the scrum resets are an absolute joke.

In dry conditions I’d be in favour of a maximum of one re-set. If it’s the conditions and the turf is cutting up, there’s a bit of leeway maybe but when it’s dry and props are collapsing because they get their technique wrong, they can’t just expect a reset.

I certainly don’t want to lose scrums, but god they need speeding up.

Referees can speed the game up in both of those areas of the decide to.

How many times do we hear a ref shout use it and then let the scrum half take another 30 seconds to take the box kick. Ping it once and ping it early and the scrum halfs will soon change.

Same with the scrums. Ask the players to form up as soon as you give the decision. For those that then waste time and mess about, freekick them. It'll only take one and they'll start forming up quicker.

You’re gonna fit in well round these parts.

Lineouts could be a lot quicker too.

very few 9s are getting 30 seconds to use the ball after the ref says use it, but the 5 seconds could reasonably be trimmed to 3 seconds.

speeding up the scrums is a tricky area, what if a prop or hooker has an injury, are they still required to join the scrum or face a free kick for being injured?

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:100% agreed. The caterpillar rucks and the scrum resets are an absolute joke.

In dry conditions I’d be in favour of a maximum of one re-set. If it’s the conditions and the turf is cutting up, there’s a bit of leeway maybe but when it’s dry and props are collapsing because they get their technique wrong, they can’t just expect a reset.

I certainly don’t want to lose scrums, but god they need speeding up.

Referees can speed the game up in both of those areas of the decide to.

How many times do we hear a ref shout use it and then let the scrum half take another 30 seconds to take the box kick. Ping it once and ping it early and the scrum halfs will soon change.

Same with the scrums. Ask the players to form up as soon as you give the decision. For those that then waste time and mess about, freekick them. It'll only take one and they'll start forming up quicker.

That is the crux - referees already have the ability to deal with this. I can't count the number of times a 9 is allowed to spend 10 second dragging the ball back with his foot before the referee even calls, and then takes a slow count of 8 seconds with the referee doing nothing more than saying, "I have called it 9!"

They should call "Use it" when the ball is first playable and count the 5 seconds out loud. It would make a huge difference.

I am concerned about the new emphasis on breakdown laws. I am worried we'll go back to 2006-7 where the balance is too far in favour of the defensive side and teams decide to belt the ball up in the air and contest rather than risk having the ball themselves.

Puja

Digby wrote:very few 9s are getting 30 seconds to use the ball after the ref says use it, but the 5 seconds could reasonably be trimmed to 3 seconds.

speeding up the scrums is a tricky area, what if a prop or hooker has an injury, are they still required to join the scrum or face a free kick for being injured?

30 seconds is hyperbole, but I've made a point of counting out loud and very few kick before I reach 7 or 8. Oddly enough (given they invented the damned caterpillar), Wigglesworth is the most compliant and kick on the dot of 5 every time!

Puja

Scrums used to be formed and engaged literally in seconds. The current setting up does take too long and could be moved along at a far brisker pace without compromising safety. Refs could help here and also speed up the sequencing calls.
I think the delay is largely down to habit. Players know they can take quite a long time to set a scrum, and so take it. If given a bit of a hurry up I'm sure they could easily adapt.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:very few 9s are getting 30 seconds to use the ball after the ref says use it, but the 5 seconds could reasonably be trimmed to 3 seconds.

speeding up the scrums is a tricky area, what if a prop or hooker has an injury, are they still required to join the scrum or face a free kick for being injured?

30 seconds is hyperbole, but I've made a point of counting out loud and very few kick before I reach 7 or 8. Oddly enough (given they invented the damned caterpillar), Wigglesworth is the most compliant and kick on the dot of 5 every time!

Puja

x seconds from when?

fivepointer wrote:Scrums used to be formed and engaged literally in seconds. The current setting up does take too long and could be moved along at a far brisker pace without compromising safety. Refs could help here and also speed up the sequencing calls.
I think the delay is largely down to habit. Players know they can take quite a long time to set a scrum, and so take it. If given a bit of a hurry up I'm sure they could easily adapt.

Watching all those matches from 2003 showed exactly how fekked up the scrums have become. Fannying around is less than 15 years old. Just go back to those rules ffs and enforce them. Christ, even allow squint feeds if you must but for the love of God do something!!

Digby wrote:very few 9s are getting 30 seconds to use the ball after the ref says use it, but the 5 seconds could reasonably be trimmed to 3 seconds.

speeding up the scrums is a tricky area, what if a prop or hooker has an injury, are they still required to join the scrum or face a free kick for being injured?

Common sense and goodwill clearly being beyond most players and refs.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:very few 9s are getting 30 seconds to use the ball after the ref says use it, but the 5 seconds could reasonably be trimmed to 3 seconds.

speeding up the scrums is a tricky area, what if a prop or hooker has an injury, are they still required to join the scrum or face a free kick for being injured?

30 seconds is hyperbole, but I've made a point of counting out loud and very few kick before I reach 7 or 8. Oddly enough (given they invented the damned caterpillar), Wigglesworth is the most compliant and kick on the dot of 5 every time!

Puja

x seconds from when?

"Use it!"

Puja

Yeah I was listening to them on bt talking about speeding up the set ups for scrums. I'm not convinced at all either. It's one of the most dangerous parts of the sport. Making sure the front row are set up properly is surely worth the time?

If you want to speed up a boring part of the game give the place kicker much less time to do their stupid gurning/bum wiggling routine and just kick it.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
30 seconds is hyperbole, but I've made a point of counting out loud and very few kick before I reach 7 or 8. Oddly enough (given they invented the damned caterpillar), Wigglesworth is the most compliant and kick on the dot of 5 every time!

Puja

x seconds from when?

"Use it!"

Puja

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that much, but it's been a while since I've watched a decent amount of rugby