Billy Vunipola

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Puja
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Billy Vunipola

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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... y-vunipola
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/that-mov ... es-matter/
Vunipola told The Good, The Bad & The Rugby podcast: “What I saw in terms of that movement was not aligned with what I believe in. They were burning churches and bibles. I can’t support that. Even though I am a person of colour, I’m still more a person of, I guess, Jesus.”

Vunipola also expanded on his decision to support Israel Folau in April 2019 when the deeply religious former Australia full-back posted on social media that hell awaits for homosexuals. At the time Vunipola wrote “Man was made for woman to pro create that was the goal no?” prompting formal warnings from the Rugby Football Union and Saracens.

...

I could easily have been, ‘I’m not going to support this’,” Vunipola said. “I didn’t sleep for two or three days after I saw his post because something inside me was saying, ‘Do you actually believe in Jesus Christ or do you not?’ That was the challenge I was battling with, not what Folau had said.

“It was something that challenged me to step up to a level I’d never been before in terms of, ‘Am I actually going to put myself in a position where people dislike me and ridicule me?’.

“I didn’t enjoy being ridiculed, I really didn’t. But at the same time what I did find comforting is that I stood up for my faith and I didn’t just fall by the wayside. (Now) I wouldn’t go about it the same way, it would be more of a conversation from my point of view. I’d talk to whoever had any questions.

“If it happened again now and I was asked, ‘Billy do you stand in support of it?’ I would have to say yes because I’ve made my position clear. The way Folau came out with it was very abrupt and direct. Sometimes the Gospel is direct.
Every time he opens his mouth, I like him less and less. A quick google shows that nobody in the BLM movement is keen on burning down churches and bibles - the only link appears to be a BLM activist who tweeted that statues and stained glass showing a white Jesus should be smashed as racist propaganda and a Sun article that attempts to link four unrelated arson attacks on Catholic churches (that appear to be committed by white Protestant loonies, given they were attacking statues of Mary as "idols") with the BLM movement through those tweets. I wonder where Billy got the idea that BLM is about burning churches from?

Also Billy, when you get criticism for supporting homophobic statements about gay people going to hell, it's not because you're an oppressed minority for loving Jesus, it's because you're being a d*ck and ignoring all the "love everyone" and "judge not" and "I didn't say word one about gay people you idiot" that Jesus specifically said, in favour of some Old Testament verses.

Incidentally, rumour has it that the Vunipola brothers are not on good terms for unspecified reasons. Mako did take a knee on the weekend.

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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by fivepointer »

Remember he is a person of, er, Jesus, or so he guesses.

Stick to the rugby Billy, stick to the rugby......
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Adam_P »

Billy has always seemed like a bit of a bellend to me. I remember him petulantly trying to wind the crowd up in a game once which made him seems like a right prick. Never get the same impression from Mako, who always seems like a nice, sound bloke. Billy has an arrogance about him.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Mr Mwenda »

Puja wrote:
Every time he opens his mouth, I like him less and less. A quick google shows that nobody in the BLM movement is keen on burning down churches and bibles - the only link appears to be a BLM activist who tweeted that statues and stained glass showing a white Jesus should be smashed as racist propaganda and a Sun article that attempts to link four unrelated arson attacks on Catholic churches (that appear to be committed by white Protestant loonies, given they were attacking statues of Mary as "idols") with the BLM movement through those tweets. I wonder where Billy got the idea that BLM is about burning churches from?
That evangelical Christian bubble crosses over with all manner of conspiracy theory groups on the right. Probably some total prick just said it once and as that's what they tend to think happens people believe it.

The only thing I can think of in Billy's favour is he's clearly not particularly bright. Still, not much of a saving that.

Just a thought, have any international level players come out as LGBT while still playing? The only one I can think of is Gareth Thomas, but didn't he come out after he retired?
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Mikey Brown »

Hmm. I hadn't even heard this was a thing that BLM were being accused of? I'd love to know what the other parts of the 'movement' are that he takes issue with. If the standard is to judge a movement by the worst actions of any supporter he may want to take a longer look at Christianity in general.

If that Bothma quote is accurate he might want to take a second look at his logic too.
Adam_P wrote:Billy has always seemed like a bit of a bellend to me. I remember him petulantly trying to wind the crowd up in a game once which made him seems like a right prick. Never get the same impression from Mako, who always seems like a nice, sound bloke. Billy has an arrogance about him.
It's so easy to be wrong with these things, but I must may I've had exactly the same feeling about both of them.

The whole "never meet your heroes thing" goes out the window now that everyone has twitter and/or is expected to comment on every facet of world news/politics.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Digby »

Oh god, are we about to get another explanation from Haskell as to why people are free to think whatever they want as long as they agree with him that Billy is a great lad and completely wrong. Truly my sympathies go to the person given the job of getting that quote
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Re: Billy Vunipola

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Mikey Brown wrote:Hmm. I hadn't even heard this was a thing that BLM were being accused of?
It appears literally only by the Sun.

It's why I hate sportspeople who say, "Oh, I don't want to take a knee because I don't agree with the political aims of the organisation" - the main political aim is to get police to stop systematic oppression of non-white people (not just in the US) and that's what the knee is about. No-one's going to see you taking a knee and assume you aren't interested in racial equality but are instead supporting communism or antifa or anarchy or whatever the right wing talking point of the day is.
Mikey Brown wrote:The whole "never meet your heroes thing" goes out the window now that everyone has twitter and/or is expected to comment on every facet of world news/politics.
I would disagree that everyone's expected to comment - keeping your mouth shut is absolutely an option and one which I wish a few more people would take advantage of!
Digby wrote:Oh god, are we about to get another explanation from Haskell as to why people are free to think whatever they want as long as they agree with him that Billy is a great lad and completely wrong. Truly my sympathies go to the person given the job of getting that quote
And my post is blocked because Diggers has posted the perfect example of someone that I wish would occasionally consider not commenting!

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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Mikey Brown »

I don't even understand. Where does Haskell come in to it?
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Scrumhead »

Because it came from an interview with Billy on Haskell’s now podcast.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Raggs »

So why does Billy play on Sundays. Why does Folau?

Sorry, you either take the thing seriously enough to condemn others to hell etc, or you don't.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Oakboy »

All I'd say is that everybody taking a knee means they are doing it because they are told they have to. When they are allowed to make their own choices doing so has meaning. As for Billy . . . .
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Re: Billy Vunipola

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Oakboy wrote:All I'd say is that everybody taking a knee means they are doing it because they are told they have to. When they are allowed to make their own choices doing so has meaning. As for Billy . . . .
So you're saying that everybody doing has been told they have to? None of them simply chose to? What's the big deal aobut taking a knee? It's a simply small symbolic gesture. It doesn't say that they have to now pay half their paycheck to someone, or are obliged to do it for 30 minutes every day for the rest of their lives etc.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

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What a egg.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

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Raggs wrote:
Oakboy wrote:All I'd say is that everybody taking a knee means they are doing it because they are told they have to. When they are allowed to make their own choices doing so has meaning. As for Billy . . . .
So you're saying that everybody doing has been told they have to? None of them simply chose to? What's the big deal aobut taking a knee? It's a simply small symbolic gesture. It doesn't say that they have to now pay half their paycheck to someone, or are obliged to do it for 30 minutes every day for the rest of their lives etc.
I think Oakboy is saying that, "If everyone has to take a knee, then they are doing it because they are forced to and it's meaningless. If they are given the choice, then it stays meaningful."

Which I do agree with - no-one should be forced to do it, although that doesn't mean I won't judge people who don't. Interesting that all of the footballers took a knee in unanimity when their sport restarted, but sports where players generally come from a more affluent background like rugby and Formula 1 have people conscientiously objecting to taking a knee (although I believe cricket was unanimous, so perhaps I am drawing a poor correlation on insufficient data).

Or, in the case of Sale, having all of their white South Africans decide not to take a knee, which was a *great* look (ETA- just noticed from the pic on the BBC article that Rhodes and Koch also stood in the Saracens game - anyone know if there was a single white South African in the Prem who took a knee?).

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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Mikey Brown »

Ha. Was there any particular explanation given for that?

I would love to meet a person that feels that strongly they could never take a knee for any cause at all. I wonder if Bothma actually elaborated at all.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by jngf »

Purely on playing terms Eddie has based way too much of the England forward game on having a fit Billy available - as a tight ball carrying forward he’s cornered the market but he has limitations (principally not very quick by standards of other no.8s , no lineout jumping ability and prop forward body shape and mobility) and I would put him some way behind Dallaglio, Richards and Ripley on the all time great England no.8s list...and behind Falatau as first choice Lions 8 ......having said all that I’ll be massively relieved to see him back in the England 8 shirt in place of Tom Curry :)
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Re: Billy Vunipola

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jngf wrote:Purely on playing terms Eddie has based way too much of the England forward game on having a fit Billy available - as a tight ball carrying forward he’s cornered the market but he has limitations (principally not very quick by standards of other no.8s , no lineout jumping ability and prop forward body shape and mobility) and I would put him some way behind Dallaglio, Richards and Ripley on the all time great England no.8s list...and behind Falatau as first choice Lions 8 ......having said all that I’ll be massively relieved to see him back in the England 8 shirt in place of Tom Curry :)

Sweet Jesus man, do you not have any other settings?
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Re: Billy Vunipola

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Mikey Brown wrote:Ha. Was there any particular explanation given for that?

I would love to meet a person that feels that strongly they could never take a knee for any cause at all. I wonder if Bothma actually elaborated at all.
Just makes me think of Dominic Raab: https://www.indy100.com/article/dominic ... er-9572681

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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Digby »

Still probably the 1st pick in an England XV if he's available, so will the RFU have anything to say and how would they start to go about it?
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Re: Billy Vunipola

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Digby wrote:Still probably the 1st pick in an England XV if he's available, so will the RFU have anything to say and how would they start to go about it?
Can't imagine so. He's not actively said anything especially problematic in and of itself - just regurgitated a made-up Sun story and asserted that he was pleased to have stood up for Jesus. Hasn't hurt anyone or anything except for people's opinion of him.

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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Raggs »

Think I've read/heard that the white saffers didn't do it because they'll only kneel for god. Which brings me again to the point of why they play on Sundays.

I know there's been a few players that won't play on Sundays. I may not respect their religion, but I can at least respect them for doing what it actually says, and not picking the bits they like.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

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Raggs wrote:Think I've read/heard that the white saffers didn't do it because they'll only kneel for god. Which brings me again to the point of why they play on Sundays.

I know there's been a few players that won't play on Sundays. I may not respect their religion, but I can at least respect them for doing what it actually says, and not picking the bits they like.
There is it's very hard to live according to the bible when like all wide thinking life systems it flat out contradicts itself many times over.

For myself I've always found it odd to consider some long ago stated values can be held to be immutable, it's all a bit Amish even before you get onto the Amish.
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Scrumhead »

Puja wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Oakboy wrote:All I'd say is that everybody taking a knee means they are doing it because they are told they have to. When they are allowed to make their own choices doing so has meaning. As for Billy . . . .
So you're saying that everybody doing has been told they have to? None of them simply chose to? What's the big deal aobut taking a knee? It's a simply small symbolic gesture. It doesn't say that they have to now pay half their paycheck to someone, or are obliged to do it for 30 minutes every day for the rest of their lives etc.
I think Oakboy is saying that, "If everyone has to take a knee, then they are doing it because they are forced to and it's meaningless. If they are given the choice, then it stays meaningful."

Which I do agree with - no-one should be forced to do it, although that doesn't mean I won't judge people who don't. Interesting that all of the footballers took a knee in unanimity when their sport restarted, but sports where players generally come from a more affluent background like rugby and Formula 1 have people conscientiously objecting to taking a knee (although I believe cricket was unanimous, so perhaps I am drawing a poor correlation on insufficient data).

Or, in the case of Sale, having all of their white South Africans decide not to take a knee, which was a *great* look (ETA- just noticed from the pic on the BBC article that Rhodes and Koch also stood in the Saracens game - anyone know if there was a single white South African in the Prem who took a knee?).

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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by Which Tyler »

Rokoduguni also failed to take a knee.
He had a far better rationale IMO
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Re: Billy Vunipola

Post by canta_brian »

Raggs wrote:So why does Billy play on Sundays. Why does Folau?

Sorry, you either take the thing seriously enough to condemn others to hell etc, or you don't.
I knew a car dealer who was vegan a few years ago. Except when it came to leather in posh cars. Because without leather they depreciated too quickly.

I mean why not just drive a bacon sandwich and be done with it.
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