RugbyRebels

The Rugby World Cup 2023 pool draw will take place in Paris at Palais Brongniart on 14 December 2020.

The World Rugby rankings as of 1 January 2020 will be used to determine seedings.

Assuming no huge moves in the ranking it's possible for England to wind up with Australia or France and Argentina again.

16th man wrote:Assuming no huge moves in the ranking it's possible for England to wind up with Australia or France and Argentina again.

The rankings are from before the 6 nations and won't change, I think you're looking at it slightly pessimistically, England could end up with Japan, Italy and a tier 4 team just as easily.

As a Welshman I'm feeling slightly relieved that they aren't using the current rankings.

16th man wrote:Assuming no huge moves in the ranking it's possible for England to wind up with Australia or France and Argentina again.

France is surely the team to want to avoid in that second seed slot. Home advantage, plus their crop of excellent youngsters coming to the fore? They'll be amongst the favourites for the tournament, let alone a pool.

Ideal pool is probably Japan and Italy. Nightmare is France and Argentina/Scotland.

Puja

Numbers wrote:

16th man wrote:Assuming no huge moves in the ranking it's possible for England to wind up with Australia or France and Argentina again.

The rankings are from before the 6 nations and won't change, I think you're looking at it slightly pessimistically, England could end up with Japan, Italy and a tier 4 team just as easily.

As a Welshman I'm feeling slightly relieved that they aren't using the current rankings.

It is bizarre that they're using the rankings from the RWC 2019 to seed for RWC 2023. I can understand them not using this year's rankings (although the Scots will be narked as that drops them from tier 2 to tier 3), but why do they *need* to do the draw this far in advance? If they said, "We shall do the draw in December 2021," would people really be panicking at having only 20 months to plan their trips to France? Not like anyone can really plan anything right now anyway.

Puja

Puja wrote:

16th man wrote:Assuming no huge moves in the ranking it's possible for England to wind up with Australia or France and Argentina again.

Ideal pool is probably Japan and Italy.
Puja

Which, miraculously, the All Blacks will probably get.

16th man wrote:

Puja wrote:

16th man wrote:Assuming no huge moves in the ranking it's possible for England to wind up with Australia or France and Argentina again.

Ideal pool is probably Japan and Italy.
Puja

Which, miraculously, the All Blacks will probably get.

And then complain about being undercooked when they crash out in the knockout stages

16th man wrote:

Puja wrote:

16th man wrote:Assuming no huge moves in the ranking it's possible for England to wind up with Australia or France and Argentina again.

Ideal pool is probably Japan and Italy.
Puja

Which, miraculously, the All Blacks will probably get.

Mind, last time they were drawn with the eventual champions and a 6N team who battled them to a triumphant draw.

If there were to be a finger on the scales, I'd imagine it'd be in favour of France. WR will desperately need a financially successful RWC and could do without France repeating the behaviour of the last money-spinning NH side they awarded the tournament to. Wales/France/Italy would seem to be the best bet for making sure France get through to the quarters.

Puja

16th man wrote:

Puja wrote:

16th man wrote:Assuming no huge moves in the ranking it's possible for England to wind up with Australia or France and Argentina again.

Ideal pool is probably Japan and Italy.
Puja

Which, miraculously, the All Blacks will probably get.

That was my first thought too ...

Scrumhead wrote:

16th man wrote:

Puja wrote:
Ideal pool is probably Japan and Italy.
Puja

Which, miraculously, the All Blacks will probably get.

That was my first thought too ...

Do the ABs have a reputation for getting easy draws. I thought it was just that there are only about 4 teams who actually believe they can beat them.

A group of SA, Argentina, Wales is seen as a tough group for all three. A group of NZ, Argentina, Wales is a battle for second place between Argentina and Wales.

Yes. They’ve certainly had easy draws in the last few RWCs.

2019 South Africa Namibia Italy Canada
2015 Georgia Namibia Tonga and the Argies
2011 France Canada Japan Tonga
2007 Scotland Italy Romania Portugal

Being no. 1 in the world obviously gets you some leeway but...

16th man wrote:2019 South Africa Namibia Italy Canada
2015 Georgia Namibia Tonga and the Argies
2011 France Canada Japan Tonga
2007 Scotland Italy Romania Portugal

Being no. 1 in the world obviously gets you some leeway but...

Look at the groups that other top seeds got in that time though. There aren't that many big teams in the RWC and it's not so much that you're lucky to have an easy group as unlucky if you have a difficult one. If you look back at those tournaments and swap the Kiwis out for another of the top seeds, the only pool that might've been tricky was the England/Wales/Fiji one of 2015 and, even then, that would only have included one nation that had ever beaten them in the professional era.

Puja

Cameo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

16th man wrote:
Which, miraculously, the All Blacks will probably get.

That was my first thought too ...

Do the ABs have a reputation for getting easy draws. I thought it was just that there are only about 4 teams who actually believe they can beat them.

A group of SA, Argentina, Wales is seen as a tough group for all three. A group of NZ, Argentina, Wales is a battle for second place between Argentina and Wales.

Wales, SA and NZ are all tier one...

So, picking my ideal draw:

Group A:
England
Japan
Italy
USA
Repechage (probably Canada)

Decent group for us and for Japan and USA, who I also want to do well. Sorry Italy.

Group B:
New Zealand
Ireland
Argentina
Samoa
Romania/Spain/Russia

Good to give New Zealand a proper test in the pool stages. Reward for us finishing top of the group would be playing a quarter final against Ireland (which is the only game against Ireland that's a guaranteed win) or Argentina (who I think might be a basket-case by 2023). I'd take that.

Group C:
Wales
France
Fiji
Uruguay
Georgia

Preferably with Wales having to play France first up and then Fiji 3 days later.

Group D:
South Africa
Australia
Scotland
Tonga
Namibia

Cause I think Scotland and Australia's fast and wide game stands the best chance of putting some dents in the South African defence.


What we'll actually get is:

Group A:
England
France
Scotland
Samoa
Georgia

With us having to play France first and Scotland 1 day after on the other side of France, with our quarter final options being New Zealand or Australia.

Puja