Sarries not going down?

[jimKRFC]

From Ultimate rugby & the Daily Mail as well:

"An intriguing development is in the pipeline at the moment which could see Saracens thrown back into the Premiership without playing a single game in the Tier 2 Championship to which they were relegated this past season as a result of breaching salary cap regulations with a number of their top-ranking players.

This comes amid concerns that the 2020-21 Championship will not go ahead in light of the current Covid-19 situation which threatens the viability of the tournament.

On paper, Saracens should not be allowed back into the Premiership without first gaining promotion from the Championship. However, if there is no Championship to play, it is said that the Premiership would not hesitate in welcoming mark McCall’s men back into the fray.

‘The reality is that there are 13 Premiership clubs and Saracens are one of them,’ said one Premiership official.



In addition to this, talks are currently underway which may result in Ealing Trailfinders being included as a fourteenth team in the Premiership should the club invest a substantial sum of money into the competition.

Mike Gooley, owner of Ealing, said:

‘I haven’t written cheques to accelerate us straight into the Premiership but if we need to spend £7million, then I’m good for it.’

Apart from the financial investment, Ealing would also be required to satisfy some high expectations which would ensure that they would be competitive.

While the RFU are steadfastly insisting that no plans to scrap the Championship are on the table, the possibility is evident for all to see. The overriding issue is that the Championship clubs are unable to afford the regular testing procedures which the Premiership clubs have in place and which allow them to continue participating.

Thus, depending on how the Coronavirus situation progresses in the UK in the coming months, fans could see Saracens in the ranks of the 2020-21 Premiership."

Personally would be annoyed if they get away with the systematic cheating....

[Mikey Brown]

I’m unclear why the Championship being cancelled would suddenly mean that expanding the Premiership is needed?

[Digby]

If you were a Prem club you'd want them back. If the Champ doesn't play games that could well only limit the Sarries losses Vs the top clubs

[Mellsblue]

And they say money can’t buy you love.

[Mikey Brown]

If you were a Prem club you'd want them back. If the Champ doesn't play games that could well only limit the Sarries losses Vs the top clubs

Not sure I'm following you. Do you mean money rather than games? Would they also be expanding the Prem to keep Worcester/Leicester/Irish if they had gone down and the Championship was cancelled?

[Oakboy]

So, if they come back, is the salary cap scrapped? It just as well be!

[Digby]

If you were a Prem club you'd want them back. If the Champ doesn't play games that could well only limit the Sarries losses Vs the top clubs

Not sure I'm following you. Do you mean money rather than games? Would they also be expanding the Prem to keep Worcester/Leicester/Irish if they had gone down and the Championship was cancelled?

It'll cost money to stage live games in stadiums, so why not have Sarries join in that fun

[Mikey Brown]

Right... but in terms of actually having a competition between teams who deserve to be there?

[Puja]

Absolutely typical. The Premiership is facing an existential crisis, teams are warning about running out of money, who knows what the sporting and financing landscape is going to be like after this is done, and the Premiership are looking at expanding and spreading across more teams.

Incredible.

Puja

[FKAS]

If you were a Prem club you'd want them back. If the Champ doesn't play games that could well only limit the Sarries losses Vs the top clubs

Not sure I'm following you. Do you mean money rather than games? Would they also be expanding the Prem to keep Worcester/Leicester/Irish if they had gone down and the Championship was cancelled?

Given Tigers are the best supported team and create so much media coverage the PRL would probably try and find a way to keep us in. Exposure and sponsors equalling cash the way they do. I suspect Sarries might be similar except without the support.

[Digby]

Like all other clubs they're putting together their strongest case as they see it for access to what central funding exists because they deserve it. Which isn't a problem bar those central funds have multiple claims on every penny going

[fivepointer]

‘The reality is that there are 13 Premiership clubs and Saracens are one of them,’ said one Premiership official.

This is the reality. Saracens are a Premiership club and their stay in the Championship isnt going to last more than a season. They will be back and the rest of the Prem clubs should welcome that.

Other than Ealing, who obviously have some serious money behind them, there is no one else in the Championship who could remotely be able to handle Premiership rugby. Could they make the step up? They would have to invest in the squad and facilities but its not out of the question. Money talks. Well, yes it does, This is pro sport.

If that leads to a sealed off top 14 with the Championship going part time, or even amateur, then that may not be the worst thing to happen to the elite game.

[Oakboy]

I agree with 5P on the part-time championship but I don't see how the game will cope with more premiership fixtures unless room is made by dropping games elsewhere.

Should Italy get downgraded with reversion to 5N and fewer clubs in Europe? Should the european competitions reduce/drop their league sections? Where else is there slack in the system?

I still believe the single best way to raise the standard of the English game, and therefore its international team, is to stop premiership games clashing with internationals. IMO, allowing those clashes is the last bastion of amateurism. If our game is truly professional those clashes have to go.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Ive enjoyed reading the meltdowns from Chiefs fans over this news haha. Its like some of them thought Sarries were never going to win promotion ever again...

[Digby]

Cheifs fan should be pleased given they were spending the cap several seasons back many of their own players have improved their standing since then and the additions to the squad have tended to make them stronger.

[ExAviator]

Well done Exeter in 2019/2020 – worthy double champions.

Champions of Europe where there is no salary cap so Saracens could have played with their full complement; champions in England although of course Saracens did win enough points in the Premiership to have featured feature in the playoffs - but were barred from doing so.

So surely if Exeter win both next season, it would feel much better for their fans if Saracens had been contenders. Otherwise there would always be a lingering doubt in minds that Exeter were truly the best team in Europe and the best team in England. With a salary capped Saracens losing out in both competitions, Exeter fans would then know their team truly is the best in 2020/2021.

If I were an Exeter supporter, the best team in both Europe and England, I would want to demonstrate convincingly that Exeter was better than all other English clubs, including a Saracens team competing on equal terms, as soon as possible.

[Raggs]

Well done Exeter in 2019/2020 – worthy double champions.

Champions of Europe where there is no salary cap so Saracens could have played with their full complement; champions in England although of course Saracens did win enough points in the Premiership to have featured feature in the playoffs - but were barred from doing so.

So surely if Exeter win both next season, it would feel much better for their fans if Saracens had been contenders. Otherwise there would always be a lingering doubt in minds that Exeter were truly the best team in Europe and the best team in England. With a salary capped Saracens losing out in both competitions, Exeter fans would then know their team truly is the best in 2020/2021.

If I were an Exeter supporter, the best team in both Europe and England, I would want to demonstrate convincingly that Exeter was better than all other English clubs, including a Saracens team competing on equal terms, as soon as possible.

Sarries would have been 5th in the table, and not qualified for the playoffs.

[ExAviator]

Bath were fourth with 67 points and a PD of 63

Saracens were twelfth with -38 and a PD of 122 but had a 105 points deduction (if I remember correctly).

If so -38 plus 105 gives Saracens 67 points with a better PD and hence would have been fourth and Bristol fifth.

Apologies if I am wrong.

[Banquo]

Bath were fourth with 67 points and a PD of 63

Saracens were twelfth with -38 and a PD of 122 but had a 105 points deduction (if I remember correctly).

If so -38 plus 105 gives Saracens 67 points with a better PD and hence would have been fourth and Bristol fifth.

Apologies if I am wrong.

Bath or Bristol being the first question

[Mikey Brown]

Well done Exeter in 2019/2020 – worthy double champions.

Champions of Europe where there is no salary cap so Saracens could have played with their full complement; champions in England although of course Saracens did win enough points in the Premiership to have featured feature in the playoffs - but were barred from doing so.

So surely if Exeter win both next season, it would feel much better for their fans if Saracens had been contenders. Otherwise there would always be a lingering doubt in minds that Exeter were truly the best team in Europe and the best team in England. With a salary capped Saracens losing out in both competitions, Exeter fans would then know their team truly is the best in 2020/2021.

If I were an Exeter supporter, the best team in both Europe and England, I would want to demonstrate convincingly that Exeter was better than all other English clubs, including a Saracens team competing on equal terms, as soon as possible.

Sarries would have been 5th in the table, and not qualified for the playoffs.

Also the angle of no cap in Europe doesn’t add up. Every team has to also fight it out in their domestic league under whatever rules are in place and balance that against their European games.

I don’t see why Exeter shouldn’t be irked, to be honest. They’ve missed out (amongst others) while Saracens have been cheating. They had to fight their way back from the championship and it looks like Saracens don’t. I don’t see why it matters that Saracens very likely would have gained promotion next season.

The effect of the leg up they had, all the success and development that came with it, doesn’t simply disappear once they start playing by the rules.

Of course they want to beat the best opposition available, but that doesn’t seem like the same issue to me.

[Raggs]

Bath were fourth with 67 points and a PD of 63

Saracens were twelfth with -38 and a PD of 122 but had a 105 points deduction (if I remember correctly).

If so -38 plus 105 gives Saracens 67 points with a better PD and hence would have been fourth and Bristol fifth.

Apologies if I am wrong.

First decider is number of wins. Sarries lose on that.

[ExAviator]

Wrong again. PD comes after number of wins. I'll claim 'senior moments'. Apologies Raggs
But am I wrong in the second instance as suggested by Banquo: did the table not finish Bristol third, Bath fourth and Sale fifth? Or have I had a another 'senior moment'?
And for Mikey Brown: he once obliquely indicated after a previous post of mine - facts sometimes get in the way of an allegedly good argument. But of course he is right in his statement concerning qualification! However, we do agree "Of course they want to beat the best opposition".

[Banquo]

Wrong again. PD comes after number of wins. I'll claim 'senior moments'. Apologies Raggs
But am I wrong in the second instance as suggested by Banquo: did the table not finish Bristol third, Bath fourth and Sale fifth? Or have I had a another 'senior moment'?
And for Mikey Brown: he once obliquely indicated after a previous post of mine - facts sometimes get in the way of an allegedly good argument. But of course he is right in his statement concerning qualification! However, we do agree "Of course they want to beat the best opposition".

Yes, but you suggested Brizzle would have been pushed to fifth unless I'm being utterly dim.

[Digby]

Exeter are almost certainly more vexed by the trophies they missed out on when Sarries were cheating so much than by not playing Sarries in the most recent finals.

[Mellsblue]

The more I think about this, the more I think this is the opportunity they will use to ring fence.
I can see the argument that no club should be relegated this season as there are bound to be numerous forfeited games. The clubs will then also, rightfully, claim they are cash strapped and therefore need an extra home game for the gate receipts and the financial certainty of not spending a season in the backwaters of the Champ. Coupled with the fact that the RFU no longer have the money to buy their compliance and Champ clubs will be all but amateur and concentrating on the battle to keep their heads above the financial waters....