England vs. Ireland - Saturday 21st Nov

[Scrumhead]

Someone has to create a thread for this, so might as well be me!

I see Sexton and Henshaw are both out for Ireland: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54959434

Stockdale and Henderson missed the Wales game so not sure on whether they’ll be fit or not ...

Very real possibility of Murray at 10 or Billy Burns.

[Raggs]

No Sexton is good for us in the short term, but I was kinda hoping that Ireland would keep playing him until he's an old age pensioner, and refuse to give experience to anyone else.

[Oakboy]

We can safely assume that Jones will pick what he sees as our strongest side. That is probably: Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, Billy, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Slade, Watson, Daly - assuming all are fit.

[Scrumhead]

No Sexton is good for us in the short term, but I was kinda hoping that Ireland would keep playing him until he's an old age pensioner, and refuse to give experience to anyone else.

Well if they end up playing Murray at 10, it has pretty much the same effect.

[Oakboy]

No Sexton is good for us in the short term, but I was kinda hoping that Ireland would keep playing him until he's an old age pensioner, and refuse to give experience to anyone else.

Are you implying that we might have to tolerate Farrell for another ten years?

[Puja]

Burns is possibly still concussed from the weekend. I'm actually a bit disappointed - I'd rather we got a real test rather than facing an Ireland side riddled with injuries.

I'm still a bit confused as to how an honest trier like Billy Burns is an international player.

Puja

[Puja]

We can safely assume that Jones will pick what he sees as our strongest side. That is probably: Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, Billy, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Slade, Watson, Daly - assuming all are fit.

I'm not biting, but I do want to acknowledge the skill of the bait. {Polite golfclap}

I think there is a chance that Underhill might lose his place to Willis. Eddie did speak of him in glowing terms and he's chucked out a lot of the adjectives that he rates - gritty, determined, worked hard to get here.

Also, I don't see him going back to FFS in the midfield - much more likely to have Lawrence at 13.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Sexton is well past his best. Henshaw out is a blow. Not sure if Stockdale is best used at FB.

Irrespective of who Ireland pick this is going to be a significant step up from Italy and Georgia. And a good thing too. We need a tougher game to see just where we are.

As far as our team goes, I expect Jones will revert to the tried and tested. I dont anticipate any bold leftfield selections. So its Mako, George and Sinckler in the front row, Itoje back at lock, Curry restored, along with Youngs and you know who at HB.

[Scrumhead]

Burns is possibly still concussed from the weekend. I'm actually a bit disappointed - I'd rather we got a real test rather than facing an Ireland side riddled with injuries.

I'm still a bit confused as to how an honest trier like Billy Burns is an international player.

Puja

I agree.

In fairness to Billy Burns, he’s been good for Ulster and Ross Byrne is not obviously better.

[Mr Mwenda]

Underhill coming on with 20 to go to smash everything that moves has a certain appeal

[Scrumhead]

Sexton is well past his best. Henshaw out is a blow. Not sure if Stockdale is best used at FB.

Irrespective of who Ireland pick this is going to be a significant step up from Italy and Georgia. And a good thing too. We need a tougher game to see just where we are.

As far as our team goes, I expect Jones will revert to the tried and tested. I dont anticipate any bold leftfield selections. So its Mako, George and Sinckler in the front row, Itoje back at lock, Curry restored, along with Youngs and you know who at HB.

Probably, although I think he will have liked what he saw from Genge, Stuart and Willis, so even if they don’t start, I could see all three making the bench.

Hopefully Ford is back to save us from Farrell’s ‘masterful puppeteering’

[Stom]

Burns is possibly still concussed from the weekend. I'm actually a bit disappointed - I'd rather we got a real test rather than facing an Ireland side riddled with injuries.

I'm still a bit confused as to how an honest trier like Billy Burns is an international player.

Puja

I agree.

In fairness to Billy Burns, he’s been good for Ulster and Ross Byrne is not obviously better.

What happened to Carberry and that other 10 they used like 3 times?

[Oakboy]

We can safely assume that Jones will pick what he sees as our strongest side. That is probably: Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, Billy, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Slade, Watson, Daly - assuming all are fit.

I'm not biting, but I do want to acknowledge the skill of the bait. {Polite golfclap}

I think there is a chance that Underhill might lose his place to Willis. Eddie did speak of him in glowing terms and he's chucked out a lot of the adjectives that he rates - gritty, determined, worked hard to get here.

Also, I don't see him going back to FFS in the midfield - much more likely to have Lawrence at 13.

Puja

The 4/5 thing was accidental - I just put Itoje first without thinking.

As for Willis, did you not see something odd in pulling him off after 46 minutes if he has a chance of starting the next match?

On FFS, if Ford is fit, I think that is Jones's favoured trio.

None of that is my choice, I hasten to add.

[Scrumhead]

Burns is possibly still concussed from the weekend. I'm actually a bit disappointed - I'd rather we got a real test rather than facing an Ireland side riddled with injuries.

I'm still a bit confused as to how an honest trier like Billy Burns is an international player.

Puja

I agree.

In fairness to Billy Burns, he’s been good for Ulster and Ross Byrne is not obviously better.

What happened to Carberry and that other 10 they used like 3 times?

Carbery’s injured (again). I think the other 10 you mean is Jack Carty who isn’t in the squad.

[Stom]

I agree.

In fairness to Billy Burns, he’s been good for Ulster and Ross Byrne is not obviously better.

What happened to Carberry and that other 10 they used like 3 times?

Carbery’s injured (again). I think the other 10 you mean is Jack Carty who isn’t in the squad.

I looked it up, I meant JJ Hanrahan, I think

[Puja]

We can safely assume that Jones will pick what he sees as our strongest side. That is probably: Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, Billy, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Slade, Watson, Daly - assuming all are fit.

I'm not biting, but I do want to acknowledge the skill of the bait. {Polite golfclap}

I think there is a chance that Underhill might lose his place to Willis. Eddie did speak of him in glowing terms and he's chucked out a lot of the adjectives that he rates - gritty, determined, worked hard to get here.

Also, I don't see him going back to FFS in the midfield - much more likely to have Lawrence at 13.

Puja

The 4/5 thing was accidental - I just put Itoje first without thinking.

As for Willis, did you not see something odd in pulling him off after 46 minutes if he has a chance of starting the next match?

On FFS, if Ford is fit, I think that is Jones's favoured trio.

None of that is my choice, I hasten to add.

I more meant picking them together. I'd be surprised if it happens, given it never has before.

On Willis, I live in hope. Maybe he'd seen all he needed to see? {/optimism}

Why would you say FFS is Jones's favourite trio? It last played in the losing 2018 South Africa tour (along with its spiritual counterpart in the third test, CFS), was dropped immediately afterwards, and has yet to be returned to despite the opportunity being there on several occasions. It's since been Faz/Te'o/Slade, Faz/Manu/Slade, and Ford/Faz/Manu.

Puja

[Banquo]

We can safely assume that Jones will pick what he sees as our strongest side. That is probably: Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, Billy, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Slade, Watson, Daly - assuming all are fit.

You aren’t listening to Puja.

That said I do think he will go with Hill, who will probably still pack down on the tight head side. Lineout will be critical and it’s not Launchburys strong suit, and although Curry is a decent lineout option, it’s definitely something Ireland will attack.

(Btw itoje and launch have started together)

[Puja]

We can safely assume that Jones will pick what he sees as our strongest side. That is probably: Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, Billy, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Slade, Watson, Daly - assuming all are fit.

You aren’t listening to Puja.

That said I do think he will go with Hill, who will probably still pack down on the tight head side. Lineout will be critical and it’s not Launchburys strong suit, and although Curry is a decent lineout option, it’s definitely something Ireland will attack.

(Btw itoje and launch have started together)

I am genuinely interested in knowing when that was.

Puja

[Banquo]

We can safely assume that Jones will pick what he sees as our strongest side. That is probably: Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, Billy, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Slade, Watson, Daly - assuming all are fit.

You aren’t listening to Puja.

That said I do think he will go with Hill, who will probably still pack down on the tight head side. Lineout will be critical and it’s not Launchburys strong suit, and although Curry is a decent lineout option, it’s definitely something Ireland will attack.

(Btw itoje and launch have started together)

I am genuinely interested in knowing when that was.

Puja

It doesn’t take that long to find

Italy, Wales, Scotland, France 2018 6n starters as locks
2 x SA 2018 tour
1 x Wales 2019 WC warm up

A lot of the missing games between, one or other has been injured.

[Mikey Brown]

I like FFS. Not in the sense I like the combo, but the acronym seems fitting in not quite making the best of any of their talents by sticking them all together.

I'd love it if Eddie saw Sexton's absence as an opportunity to very sportingly rest Owen Farrell, so we can see Ford/Lawrence/Slade.

I'm curious what he does with Joseph too. Maybe a roaming Daly/JSD role on the wing could suit him. If he plays his cards right he could be starting fullback within a season.

[Banquo]

I like FFS. Not in the sense I like the combo, but the acronym seems fitting in not quite making the best of any of their talents by sticking them all together.

I'd love it if Eddie saw Sexton's absence as an opportunity to very sportingly rest Owen Farrell, so we can see Ford/Lawrence/Slade.

I'm curious what he does with Joseph too. Maybe a roaming Daly/JSD role on the wing could suit him. If he plays his cards right he could be starting fullback within a season.

Yep to this. I did like what JJ showed when running at a decent pace onto the ball as well- equally Daly was good it this when playing as a wing, where he is miles better than at 15. Daly is a good attacking 15, but his positional play and presence under the high ball will be relentlessly probed by top teams, especially if he continues to hoof it rather than counter.

[Oakboy]

If I was picking from choice, I'd have:

Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Willis, Curry, Simmonds, Robson, Simmonds, May, Slade, Joseph, Daly, Watson.

From this squad, I'd have to change the 10 to Ford and the 8 to Billy.

I still think Jones will select as I suggested above. Happy to be proved wrong.

[Banquo]

If I was picking from choice, I'd have:

Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Willis, Curry, Simmonds, Robson, Simmonds, May, Slade, Joseph, Daly, Watson.

From this squad, I'd have to change the 10 to Ford and the 8 to Billy.

I still think Jones will select as I suggested above. Happy to be proved wrong.

I’d have the Vunipola’s to start and whilst it would good to see if Slade and JJ could play together, I’m not optimistic it would work, without a great of work. It would be a very lightweight back division and would need a much higher standard of decision making from the pack in attack than we are used to or have trained for. But I would like to go in this general direction and speed up our play in the right areas of the park. I also think we could aspire to be a good counter attacking side.

[Raggs]

If I was picking from choice, I'd have:

Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Willis, Curry, Simmonds, Robson, Simmonds, May, Slade, Joseph, Daly, Watson.

From this squad, I'd have to change the 10 to Ford and the 8 to Billy.

I still think Jones will select as I suggested above. Happy to be proved wrong.

Think you'd really struggle to be honest, can't see where the go forward comes from in a slog.

[Oakboy]

If I was picking from choice, I'd have:

Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Willis, Curry, Simmonds, Robson, Simmonds, May, Slade, Joseph, Daly, Watson.

From this squad, I'd have to change the 10 to Ford and the 8 to Billy.

I still think Jones will select as I suggested above. Happy to be proved wrong.

Think you'd really struggle to be honest, can't see where the go forward comes from in a slog.

Maybe, not being reliant on trying to run through the opposition would encourage speed of movement around them? I really dislike the channelling of tactics towards bludgeon just because Jones got comprehensively out-coached by SA.

Incidentally, just because my back-row is missing a few stones on normal, I'd back it for the hard yards. I think Itoje has a lot more to offer with pace on the game. Few locks have carried more in the red zone than Hill. That front row is the best scrummaging set of starters.

In the backs, it is simply skill over brawn.

Whatever, anything would be more attractive than what we are getting.