Leicester Tigers v Gloucester Rugby, Saturday 3.00pm)

[Tigersman]

Leicester Tigers
15 Freddie Steward
14 Kobus Van Wyk
13 Jaco Taute
12 Guy Porter
11 Harry Potter
10 Zack Henry
9 Richard Wigglesworth
1 Facundo Gigena
2 Tom Youngs (c)
3 Dan Cole
4 Harry Wells
5 Calum Green
6 Hanro Liebenberg
7 Tommy Reffell
8 Jasper Wiese

Replacements
16 Charlie Clare
17 Ryan Bower
18 Joe Heyes
19 Cameron Henderson
20 Cyle Brink
21 Ben White
22 Joaquin Diaz Bonilla
23 Dan Kelly

v
GLOUCESTER RUGBY
15. Jason Woodward
14. Charlie Sharples
13. Billy Twelvetrees
12. Mark Atkinson
11. Matt Banahan
10. Danny Cipriani
9. Joe Simpson
1. Val Rapava-Ruskin
2. James Hanson
3. Jack Stanley
4. Ed Slater
5. Matt Garvey
6. Jordy Reid
7. Lewis Ludlow ©
8. Ruan Ackermann

REPLACEMENTS
16. Henry Walker
17. Corne Fourie
18. Jamal Ford-Robinson
19. Jamie Gibson
20. Freddie Clarke
21. Will Flinn
22. Lloyd Evans
23. Tom Seabrook

[francoisfou]

So Wigglesworth jumps straight in the the starting XV, which is probably a good call.

These two sides seem evenly matched and it could go down to the wire. Let's hope Cipriani has one of his off days!

[Tigersman]

i'm guessing the two big missing players for Tigers Scott and Leatigaga are ones that couldn't play due to Covid.

[Gloskarlos]

Good to see Hanson back after a long time injured. Polledri is out for 6 months odd with knee ligament damage which is a huge blow. signing Jamie Gibson not such a bad idea after all. I would have started Seabrook instead of banahan, but I’d agree, similar looking sides. Bookies have tigers as favourites. Let’s see.

[fivepointer]

Could go either way. Glos backs may have an edge.

Why play the game at 3pm on a Saturday, the same time as England are playing? Isnt there a case for moving these games to another day when there wont be a clash so you can get more people watching.

(I think BT are showing all the games live)

[FKAS]

Good to see Hanson back after a long time injured. Polledri is out for 6 months odd with knee ligament damage which is a huge blow. signing Jamie Gibson not such a bad idea after all. I would have started Seabrook instead of banahan, but I’d agree, similar looking sides. Bookies have tigers as favourites. Let’s see.

Seriously? I thought it was frowned upon for bookies to be high as a kite when making the odds?

On paper the teams look fairly close but Gloucester have a more settled unit and particularly their backline has a lot more experience both in terms of games played and games played together. I think Glaws will edge it by way of a more cohesive attack.

[Puja]

That's not a bad looking side from us. While it might be more than a little bit optimistic to expect a win, I think this is a game that we really need to target to get some points from.

Puja

[Banquo]

Anyone else feel a tad depressed at seeing some of these now journeymen old stagers still playing? I mean, great they have had such longevity (and needs must on intl weekends), but surely you’d be wanting a youngster to be taking their places. I’m sure it’s pragmatic to re-sign some of these guys , but....
(In fairness Tigers have a few tyros)

[Tigersman]

Tigers went the full of youngsters route and got hammered in everygame.

Gigena (26)
Youngs (33)
Cole (33)
Wells (27)
Green (30)
Liebenberg (25)
Reffell (21)
Wiese (25)
Wigg (37)
Henry (26)
Potter (22)
Porter (23)
Taute (29)
Van Wyk (28)
Steward (19)

Clare (28)
Bower (29)
Heyes (21)
Henderson (20)
Brink (26)
White (22)
Bonilla (31)
Kelly (19)

IDK I feel that's a decent balance.

[Banquo]

Tigers went the full of youngsters route and got hammered in everygame.

Gigena (26)
Youngs (33)
Cole (33)
Wells (27)
Green (30)
Liebenberg (25)
Reffell (21)
Wiese (25)
Wigg (37)
Henry (26)
Potter (22)
Porter (23)
Taute (29)
Van Wyk (28)
Steward (19)

Clare (28)
Bower (29)
Heyes (21)
Henderson (20)
Brink (26)
White (22)
Bonilla (31)
Kelly (19)

IDK I feel that's a decent balance.

I didn’t anywhere suggest going all youngster. And I did say Tigers were at least trying. But Wiggy as a signing says much even if understandable.

[Puja]

Anyone else feel a tad depressed at seeing some of these now journeymen old stagers still playing? I mean, great they have had such longevity (and needs must on intl weekends), but surely you’d be wanting a youngster to be taking their places. I’m sure it’s pragmatic to re-sign some of these guys , but....
(In fairness Tigers have a few tyros)

TBF, it's a weird compressed season with stress injuries likely and internationals missing for a chunk of it, so I'm not surprised that clubs are signing cheap depth. It's a good deal to ask of Ben White to be our full-time first choice 9 and even more to ask of Van Poortvliet if White takes a knock.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Anyone else feel a tad depressed at seeing some of these now journeymen old stagers still playing? I mean, great they have had such longevity (and needs must on intl weekends), but surely you’d be wanting a youngster to be taking their places. I’m sure it’s pragmatic to re-sign some of these guys , but....
(In fairness Tigers have a few tyros)

It's yet another pointer towards the essential requirement of NOT having the country's top club matches clash with internationals.

[Banquo]

Anyone else feel a tad depressed at seeing some of these now journeymen old stagers still playing? I mean, great they have had such longevity (and needs must on intl weekends), but surely you’d be wanting a youngster to be taking their places. I’m sure it’s pragmatic to re-sign some of these guys , but....
(In fairness Tigers have a few tyros)

TBF, it's a weird compressed season with stress injuries likely and internationals missing for a chunk of it, so I'm not surprised that clubs are signing cheap depth. It's a good deal to ask of Ben White to be our full-time first choice 9 and even more to ask of Van Poortvliet if White takes a knock.

Puja

Maybe that would fly if a lot of sides didn’t have previous in buying in cheap ish journeyman as a consequence of development failure. In the case of replacing Youngs, he’s 31 years old, has spent 10 seasons away with England so it’s hardly like it’s a surprise that a decent replacement should have been developed surely? That’s a slight tangent I created. Is Wiggy that cheap? I don’t know.
My broader point is probably more about ruthless squad development- whilst taking the weird time point, it’s only exaggerating a long standing habit.

[Banquo]

Anyone else feel a tad depressed at seeing some of these now journeymen old stagers still playing? I mean, great they have had such longevity (and needs must on intl weekends), but surely you’d be wanting a youngster to be taking their places. I’m sure it’s pragmatic to re-sign some of these guys , but....
(In fairness Tigers have a few tyros)

It's yet another pointer towards the essential requirement of NOT having the country's top club matches clash with internationals.

Take matches out of that sentence and you have the strategic point!

[Tigersman]

I guess it can be hard to develop players that are from outside the academy whilst having them behind a England International.
The more promising ones usually end up getting a starting shirt elsewhere with more money and secure game time or going to a club where the starting 9 is on their way out.
It's a hard sell usually.

On top of that you have the very well known problem of the Tigers academy which wasn't really fixed till about 5 years ago (White being from that class).

[fivepointer]

Its a touch depressing seeing Wiggy starting but i guess Tigers feel he will offer a leadership role. In a side that is still trying to find its feet, having an old hand at 9 isnt the worst option.
I've been a bit underwhelmed by White i have to say.
Interested to see how Jack Stanley goes this season.

[FKAS]

Anyone else feel a tad depressed at seeing some of these now journeymen old stagers still playing? I mean, great they have had such longevity (and needs must on intl weekends), but surely you’d be wanting a youngster to be taking their places. I’m sure it’s pragmatic to re-sign some of these guys , but....
(In fairness Tigers have a few tyros)

TBF, it's a weird compressed season with stress injuries likely and internationals missing for a chunk of it, so I'm not surprised that clubs are signing cheap depth. It's a good deal to ask of Ben White to be our full-time first choice 9 and even more to ask of Van Poortvliet if White takes a knock.

Puja

Maybe that would fly if a lot of sides didn’t have previous in buying in cheap ish journeyman as a consequence of development failure. In the case of replacing Youngs, he’s 31 years old, has spent 10 seasons away with England so it’s hardly like it’s a surprise that a decent replacement should have been developed surely? That’s a slight tangent I created. Is Wiggy that cheap? I don’t know.
My broader point is probably more about ruthless squad development- whilst taking the weird time point, it’s only exaggerating a long standing habit.

The normal stand in for Ben retired from rugby earlier because his wife was offered her dream job in Australia. Sam Harrison was another Tigers academy graduate. We had two academy graduates on the way through that should have helped ease the loss of Harrison but unfortunately one has had a number of injuries and seems to have now reverted to playing in the back three. That meant in the summer we had Ben at 30 (now 31), Ben White at 22 and then two age grade 19 year olds in JVP and Law. Considering the RFU and World Rugby decided that a massive extended international window in the Autumn and then the normal 6N at some point when they feel like it plus the Lions might mean Ben won't play much for Tigers.

Makes sense to bring in an experienced head, particularly one who has experience coaching at a time when our attack coach has left the club due to family reasons.

Ben White has 61 appearances for the club at 22. He's developing fine and Wigglesworth should be an ideal mentor as they both have the unflashy game management style type of play. Ben White has more of a temper though, bit of a terrier in that regard.

[Banquo]

TBF, it's a weird compressed season with stress injuries likely and internationals missing for a chunk of it, so I'm not surprised that clubs are signing cheap depth. It's a good deal to ask of Ben White to be our full-time first choice 9 and even more to ask of Van Poortvliet if White takes a knock.

Puja

Maybe that would fly if a lot of sides didn’t have previous in buying in cheap ish journeyman as a consequence of development failure. In the case of replacing Youngs, he’s 31 years old, has spent 10 seasons away with England so it’s hardly like it’s a surprise that a decent replacement should have been developed surely? That’s a slight tangent I created. Is Wiggy that cheap? I don’t know.
My broader point is probably more about ruthless squad development- whilst taking the weird time point, it’s only exaggerating a long standing habit.

The normal stand in for Ben retired from rugby earlier because his wife was offered her dream job in Australia. Sam Harrison was another Tigers academy graduate. We had two academy graduates on the way through that should have helped ease the loss of Harrison but unfortunately one has had a number of injuries and seems to have now reverted to playing in the back three. That meant in the summer we had Ben at 30 (now 31), Ben White at 22 and then two age grade 19 year olds in JVP and Law. Considering the RFU and World Rugby decided that a massive extended international window in the Autumn and then the normal 6N at some point when they feel like it plus the Lions might mean Ben won't play much for Tigers.

Makes sense to bring in an experienced head, particularly one who has experience coaching at a time when our attack coach has left the club due to family reasons.

Ben White has 61 appearances for the club at 22. He's developing fine and Wigglesworth should be an ideal mentor as they both have the unflashy game management style type of play. Ben White has more of a temper though, bit of a terrier in that regard.

As I said it’s a bit of a tangent, but I’d still say it’s a function of the sustained poor player planning from a successive of Tigers DORs / head coaches. It’s understandable that Borthwick wanted Wiggy, as I said, but pretty sad for a club like Tigers, who have everything going for them to bring through their own or even choose who they want.
Funnily enough, I was actually more talking to the Glaws back line!

[Banquo]

I guess it can be hard to develop players that are from outside the academy whilst having them behind a England International.
The more promising ones usually end up getting a starting shirt elsewhere with more money and secure game time or going to a club where the starting 9 is on their way out.
It's a hard sell usually.

On top of that you have the very well known problem of the Tigers academy which wasn't really fixed till about 5 years ago (White being from that class).

Can’t say as I agree with that- ideal to develop a player behind an international as they will get a load of game time. Getting them to stay for ages might be a challenge, but who of real promise has left?

[Mellsblue]

Anyone else feel a tad depressed at seeing some of these now journeymen old stagers still playing? I mean, great they have had such longevity (and needs must on intl weekends), but surely you’d be wanting a youngster to be taking their places. I’m sure it’s pragmatic to re-sign some of these guys , but....
(In fairness Tigers have a few tyros)

It's yet another pointer towards the essential requirement of NOT having the country's top club matches clash with internationals.

Take matches out of that sentence and you have the strategic point!

The away team's centre partnership may be confusing you. This is Leicester v Gloucester, not Leicester v Bedford......

[Banquo]

It's yet another pointer towards the essential requirement of NOT having the country's top club matches clash with internationals.

Take matches out of that sentence and you have the strategic point!

The away team's centre partnership may be confusing you. This is Leicester v Gloucester, not Leicester v Bedford......

Yeah...no...that’s a shits in the garden repeat for me

[Epaminondas Pules]

Christ that Tigers backline is depressing. Mind that pack isn’t really any better. There’s players missing, but even then. Steward aside it’s really hard to get enthused.

[francoisfou]

Satisfying start by Tigers - 12-0.

[Puja]

Watching this with the aim of watching England later and so far it's been the right decision - Leicester 12-0 up after two early tries and showing vague signs of competence. Not sure if its Glaws being awful or the start of the Leicester renaissance.

Puja

[Puja]

I'm loving Jasper Wiese so far. Big strong carrier, just put in a hell of a tackle - might be just what we need.

Puja