RugbyRebels

How would you sum up our 2020 campaign

For me, it would be average and as expected, mid table of 6N is probably slightly higher than we are used to and mid table of ANC would be classed as a minor success imho but we do need to work on a few things:

1) our discipline (sounds like it was appalling today)
2) our attack because, against top teams, we just lack tries), we are fine against lower ranked teams (Italy and Georgia games prove that point). We need to find an effective/winning style of play against teams like England and Ireland, we are capable which makes our inconsistency more bloody frustrating)
3) possibly a shake up in coaching staff, some on here and 606v2 forum think we could do with appointing a forwards coach so GT can focus solely on team management.

I hope Gregor gets his new deal sooner rather than later so that all his doubters can suck it up, he earned his reprieve after the France win so its only fair that he gets up until the next world cup, despite what supporters think of it!

Come the 6N or the June Tests, I'd like to see new caps such as Callum Hunter-Hill, Gary Graham, Ewan Ashman, Tom Gordon or Ratu Tagive get a chance to show the coaches and fans what their capable of. Also, I wonder if today makes GT ponder whether Ben Healy could be a good addition to our squad.

I'd still say that we are not far off being as good as Stuart Hogg thinks we are capable of becoming, hopefully they and the coaching staff learn from today but then again, how often do we say that

We have a forwards coach. Does anyone really think GT is taking the forwards? I'd be avoiding those forums.

Gary Graham has been capped.

Given we had a group of Italy and Fiji, 4th was the absolute minimum requirement IMO.

we have a forwards coach. Two in fact. De Villiers does the scrum, Dalziel the rest.

Don't quite know where we are TBH. The change to the breakdown interpretation has tilted the game back to teams with a big defence (and I mean that in every sense) and a very physical pack. Even if we wanted to upgrade our attack again, it will not work under these rules

So in terms of report card, an improved 6N, and a wee bit disappointment in this recent pretty meaningless tournament (although 4th is probably what most would have accepted at the start).

Looking forward we still have hard decisions in the back row. Thomson is the only serious lineout option but otherwise he simply is not what is needed, not physical enough under current interpretations on either side of the ball. Fagerson, Richie and Watson all cracking players but not a combination I would be happy to see start a game; and basically if our back row are out muscled we lose.

VDW did possibly better than I expected, but not nearly as well as Toonie suggested. 2 early fumbles, and beyond that didn't do anything much IMHO to suggest he is an upgrade on Weir. Without Russell or Hastings we are weak at 10. There is no way to sugar coat that.

We're a few key positions away from being a half decent team.

Front five are mostly good at what they do, including the rugby, but unfortunately what they are best at is indiscipline and arse clenchingly stupid penalties.

Back row is a major area of concern. Ritchie and Watson are good without being outstanding, but we desperately need a big powerful 8 and preferably a 6 who is either hard as fckin nails or just a horrible dirty gets-away-with-it-bastard. Sorry but Blade and Fagerson got absolutely humiliated in comparison to the Irish yesterday, it was barely good enough to be called men against boys.

Half backs I'm actually quite sanguine about. The guys we have could do a decent job in a decent team. Finn's magic has obviously been badly missed but our whole ability to attack can't just rest on him or Hastings abilities to create something. There seems to be lots of VdW hate on here but I thought he looked ok yesterday.

Centres, Johnson and Taylor look like decent 12s. 13 is another problem, Harris tried hard yesterday but achieved hee haw. Jones needs to get his form back. I thought we had strength in depth in the centres? Can't see it at 13 for the national squad.

Wings we seem to have some decent players but no idea how to use them

FB Hogg, eeesh what to say? Needs to keep developing as Captain, it feels like he's just trying too hard.

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Meant to add: Gregor.

Still not convinced he's the man for the job, but he's the man with the job for now so let's back him. He urgently needs to get two things sorted: discipline and attack. I know he's going for a more pragmatic game plan and I get why, but our attack has gone to absolute shit. As for discipline, there's no excuse at all for these guys giving away the penalties they do. It's ridiculous and pathetic and embarrassing and just gift wrapping games for the opposition.

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Donny osmond wrote:Meant to add: Gregor.

Still not convinced he's the man for the job, but he's the man with the job for now so let's back him. He urgently needs to get two things sorted: discipline and attack. I know he's going for a more pragmatic game plan and I get why, but our attack has gone to absolute shit. As for discipline, there's no excuse at all for these guys giving away the penalties they do. It's ridiculous and pathetic and embarrassing and just gift wrapping games for the opposition.

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everyone's attack has gone to shit. Ours seemed to go as soon as we tried to tighten the defence (urgently needed) but it really is impossible to say whether its any good now or not - not just missing Russell or Hastings, but the general malaise post latest ruck interpretations, and that back row isn't giving the front foot ball any attack needs

septic 9 wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:Meant to add: Gregor.

Still not convinced he's the man for the job, but he's the man with the job for now so let's back him. He urgently needs to get two things sorted: discipline and attack. I know he's going for a more pragmatic game plan and I get why, but our attack has gone to absolute shit. As for discipline, there's no excuse at all for these guys giving away the penalties they do. It's ridiculous and pathetic and embarrassing and just gift wrapping games for the opposition.

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everyone's attack has gone to shit. Ours seemed to go as soon as we tried to tighten the defence (urgently needed) but it really is impossible to say whether its any good now or not - not just missing Russell or Hastings, but the general malaise post latest ruck interpretations, and that back row isn't giving the front foot ball any attack needs

That's fair.

Altho Ireland's attack did everything it needed to yesterday, but I still accept your point.

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Donny osmond wrote:Meant to add: Gregor.

Still not convinced he's the man for the job, but he's the man with the job for now so let's back him. He urgently needs to get two things sorted: discipline and attack. I know he's going for a more pragmatic game plan and I get why, but our attack has gone to absolute shit. As for discipline, there's no excuse at all for these guys giving away the penalties they do. It's ridiculous and pathetic and embarrassing and just gift wrapping games for the opposition.

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Posted my incredibly waffley response in the wrong thread, but this is pretty much where I’m at on Townsend.

Better than we were in 2019 but still need help with the top 6 inches.

We need to play the referees better as well. Both in terms of during the match, but also in the run up, with specific examples of where they favour other teams coming in at the side over us or other teams they perceive to be “lesser” than those more marketable to their employers.

Loosehead - Rory Sutherland has to be first choice, significant drop off to Kebble and I'm not convinced Bhatti doesn't deserve the back up spot. Kebble shows up well in the loose but looks like he struggles to get low enough to compete with a shorter (or lower) tighthead.
Hooker - One of the toughest positions to call at the moment. Brown is Vice Captain but giving away penalties at a rate Jim Hamilton would be ashamed of. The kick chase penalty being a recurring theme in recent games and particularly stupid. Mcinally or Turner both look very capable and I would like to see more of Turner in a Scottish jersey. Hooker is an area where there really isn't much to choose between the available options.
Tighthead Fagerson all day long, similar to loosehead we have 1 very good option and then some space to the next. Berghan does ok, he's solid but doesn't offer much in the loose. Has Kebble spent any time at tighthead? He seems more physically suited to the position to be honest.
Second Row Just lumping these in together. Cummings has established his position with some really good performances through this campaign, thought he was a standout against the Irish. I had Gray down as an automatic starter until recently. His defensive work is fantastic, that goes without saying. But, he's short for a second row these days, isn't a commanding lineout presence and is failing to add any dynamism in the loose. I'm not saying he should be dropped but he feels like he's probably the one that should be feeling the pressure. I did think he carried better against Ireland than he has normally of late.
Blindside Jamie Ritchie is an openside, he was a nuisance to the Irish at a lot of breakdowns and, although we were giving away penalties it was rare that he was the culprit. I really like Hamish Watson and if he is to continue at 7 then we need Ritchie at 6. Feels a bit like the Scottish football problem or Robertson and Tierney. I don't think Thompson did enough to oust Ritchie from a starting berth so if Watson is going to play 7 then Ritchie is my starting 6.
Openside See above
Number 8 Fagerson keeps the jersey by default. Like all of us I really want to see a destructive ball carrier and tackling machine here but we just don't have it. Would love to see Bradbury live up to his potential and deliver that for us. Otherwise, just tell Duhan to get ready to start tackling and chuck him in there!

Scrum Half I think Price did ok through the tournament. I think with a more limited 10 we need to have a scrum half that offers more around the fringes to keep defences honest. Horne is my starting 9 when fit but Price or SHC for back up.
Fly Half There's a big drop off in creativity from Russell to Hastings and then arguably a bigger drop off from Hastings to Weir. I like Weir, he's a hard-working player but too limited. I think he would have benefited hugely if Hogg had been jumping in at first receiver against France the way he was against Ireland. JVW has done enough to keep the jersey until either Hastings or Russell is available again but really needs to work on his handling.
Left Wing Duhan for sure but I want to see him coming off his wing more often. Needs to leave a bigger imprint on the game and can't afford to hang about on the wing and look for the game to come to him.
Inside Centre I think Taylor looked good against the Irish and I think he helped to bring out the best game I've seen for a long time in Harris. I would be sticking with Taylor in the meantime
Outside Centre Harris is limited but effective in defence. I'd be tempted to reunite Taylor and Huw Jones to see if they can rekindle a spark in midfield but I think we need to look outside of Harris in the future. What sort of form is Bennett in? Who else could we put in?
Right Wing I like Darcy Graham but he wasn't at his best against Ireland. The return of Lee Jones is good news and I hope these 2 are able to push each other for a starting spot.
Full Back Hogg is still our best option here but he has looked under pressure and something needs to change. Without having a creative 10 he is trying to force the attack and be all things to everyone. Indecision at full back has been costly at times and need to see him freed up to concentrate on the day job. Kinghorn has been given a number of opportunities and feels like he has all the attributes needed but fails to put them together in games. Probably slightly more solid than Hogg has been these last few weeks but I think Hogg still needs to start.

Captaincy This has been a worrying area for me. Hogg seems to be determined to be a gung-ho captain and kick for touch all the time and Fraser Brown seems to have been overruling him a number of times to kick for the posts. Browns discipline on the other hand has been appalling, giving away so many needless penalties at the breakdown and the kick chase penalties are even more annoying. I think Brown needs to be dropped to the bench and Ritchie needs to get a shot at the captaincy. What are the other options for captain? The only other one that comes to mind is someone I have said I wouldn't start - Ali Price

Largely agree, though Ritchie wasn’t the culprit for numerous penalties on Saturday? He’s got plenty of credit in the bank as he’s been our best forward over the last 18 months but I thought he got pinged quite a few times yesterday? Maybe it was just the cameras pointing at him and I wasn’t hearing the call.

Taylor definitely offered something, but i still find him unpredictable. Maybe that’s good, maybe not. He seems like the perfect number 23 to me.

Harris is immovable at 13, and whilst Johnson offers a lot of security at 12 it doesn’t make for the most exciting combo. I’m curious if GT sees Jones at 12 as a serious option to start a test. It may be the only way to get that attacking threat in there along with Harris’s defensive game.

Hard to tell when playing 3rd/4th choice 10s.

Agreed that Kebble has looked a bit disappointing, in the scrum particularly, but often props take a handful of caps to adjust so who knows.

Thomson is nearing the point of Haining where he’s had adequate chances to show something and not really taken them.

Lots of those penalties you could hear the referee saying "7 was fine, it was............." some unfairly, Ireland are very good at holding players in at the ruck while looking innocent.

I wanted to see Jones at 12 and when he finally started a test there he was rubbish. Jones is not a 12 unfortunately.
I'm looking for Duhan to come in off the wing and help create that attacking momentum. I want to see him working as an auxiliary centre at times, getting us over the gain line and get the back line moving quickly against a fractured defence. Similar to what Sean Lamont used to do, he'd pop up in the centres so often I was advocating his move to 12 (on this board, under a name I can't remember!) long before it materialised!

As I say, I don't actually see much between Kebble and Bhatti but Kebble is the more eye catching at times.

Thomson does offer a lineout option, something that is lacking for us at times. Lack of options has put more pressure on the hookers at times, the results of that have been pretty obvious.

Was he rubbish? I can’t really remember that game.

Basically all his super 14 rugby was at 12.

I think the 6N was good. Defence solid and obvious progression in a lot of areas.

The ANC was average at best. Won the game we should have, lost to France and surrendered to Ireland.

B- overall for me.

It was an improvement on 2019 and by and large we won the games that we should win. That meant beating Italy twice and a 14 man France. On the other hand we failed twice badly against Ireland and showed a distinct lack of nous against England in horrendous conditions.

We're definitely a more difficult outfit to play against now but I'm not sure what the plan is. With low playing numbers I don't see us ever playing winning consistently by playing Uber physical rugby. At least the 'fastest rugby in the world' recognised this and tried for a different solution, albeit one that needs a 15 year commitment, not 3.

We're heavily reliant on a couple of players, and when one of them is missing (Russell) the other (Hogg) tries to do too much. Overall there's talent in the squad that I feel could be unleashed further, but we're hamstrung by being light in others. In particular I think that 4-8 that started against Ireland are all fine players, who can play international rugby (jury's out on Thompson still) but their best attributes are just all too similar.

Mikey Brown wrote:Was he rubbish? I can’t really remember that game.

Basically all his super 14 rugby was at 12.

away pre RWC in France*. Awful, just awful

He really is never a 12, and even if he could play there it would be a waste of what he offers from 13 or 15 in attack, even wing.

Had my doubts about Taylor coming back but he was good on Saturday. If we could keep him fit and clone him I'd pick him at 12 and 13. In the absence of that I'd be looking at Johnson at 12 and Taylor at 13

*edit - wrong game! Started at 13 and was awful!

Taylor was decent but not outstanding. By all means, play him if he is on form but personally I don't really see him as the future. To be honest he seems to have built massive credit in the bank without actually having that many great games for Scotland.

I'm still hoping for Johnson and Jones long term. Hopefully they get a few games at Glasgow first.

Cameo wrote:Taylor was decent but not outstanding. By all means, play him if he is on form but personally I don't really see him as the future. To be honest he seems to have built massive credit in the bank without actually having that many great games for Scotland.

I'm still hoping for Johnson and Jones long term. Hopefully they get a few games at Glasgow first.

I kind of agree. Taylor was good, but then got himself an avoidable yellow card which cost us big time. I think his main contribution was bringing on the players around him (until we decided we weren’t interested in fronting up or concentrating generally).

Johnson, while decent, isn’t massively quick. I can’t remember how quick Taylor is as it’s ages since I’ve seen him play properly!

Random thought that will never, ever happen...

12 - Taylor
13 - Hogg
15 - one of Jones/ Maitland/ Kinghorn.

I thought Taylor played well and although it was an avoidable yellow card, I wasn't convinced it should have been a yellow card to be honest.
I think what you said about him bringing other players into the game is fair but I think part of that also came from Hogg appearing at first receiver. If we'd seen more of that when Weir was at 10 I think the centres would have benefited from more space to operate in as well. As it was, Weir was left to do what he could and most of the time that involved shovelling it on to a pretty static backline against a set defence.