Falcons Vs Tigers - Sunday 28th March

[FKAS]

Leicester Tigers XV:
[club appearances in brackets]

15 Freddie Steward [24]

14 Harry Potter [9]

13 Matías Moroni [8]

12 Dan Kelly [10]

11 Kini Murimurivalu [12]

10 George Ford [98]

9 Richard Wigglesworth [8]

1 Ellis Genge [79]

2 Tom Youngs [206]

3 Dan Cole [254]

4 Harry Wells [113]

5 Calum Green [53]

6 Hanro Liebenberg [26]

7 Tommy Reffell [39]

8 Jasper Wiese [8]

Replacements:

16 Charlie Clare [23]

17 Luan de Bruin [9]

18 Joe Heyes [60]

19 Cameron Henderson [9]

20 George Martin [7]

21 Jack Van Poortvliet [15]

22 Johnny McPhillips [15]

23 Guy Porter [13]

Newcastle Falcons: 15 Alex Tait, 14 George Wacokecoke, 13 Pete Lucock, 12 Luther Burrell, 11 Ben Stevenson, 10 Joel Hodgson, 9 Louis Schreuder; 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 Jamie Blamire, 3 Jon Welsh, 4 Darren Barry, 5 Sean Robinson, 6 Will Welch, 7 Mark Wilson (c), 8 Callum Chick. Reps: 16 George McGuigan, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 Connor Collett, 20 Philip van der Walt, 21 Sam Stuart, 22 Brett Connon, 23 Morgan Passman

[FKAS]

This one should be a really physical game but both teams have some pace outside so the ball should be moved around quite a bit as well. Looking forward to it.

Benny and Lavanini being saved for next week and Europe it seems. Glad Fordy is back to lead the team and happy for Kelly to be getting an extended run.

[Puja]

That's a good looking side - glad to see Kelly getting a go between Ford and Moroni. Is Scott being rested for next week or is he injured?

Newcastle are a weird opponent - on paper, it's a very average team they're putting out, but they've got a great knack of being greater than the sum of their parts. I think this is a must-win if we have ambitions of finishing top-half.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Newcastle have changed their pack around quite a bit. New front five and Wilson back.

Think Tigers are on an upward curve and i see them winning this fairly comfortably.

[Peej]

At the risk of upsetting Tigers fans, I think they've got this

[FKAS]

At the risk of upsetting Tigers fans, I think they've got this

On paper you'd hope so. Especially when you look at the Falcons bench with no replacement lock and their bench props aren't the best and considering Tigers tactics which go hard in the tight you'd hope we'd wear them down. Falcons have been more than the sum of their parts this season. Hard to write them off.

[twitchy]

Genge and Welsh already getting into it pre game lol.

[Mellsblue]

You watch Ford play so sublimely in the Prem and then you think that as well as they play are Smith and Simmonds, who have the pleasure of playing in superior teams, going to be better than him for Eng and come to conclusion of probably not.

[twitchy]

Wiese smashes welsh who goes off.

[FKAS]

Real shame to see Welsh go off after all he'd gone through to get back out there and the niggle pre game between him and Genge meant it looked like we were in for some fiesty fun.

Karl Dickson doing his best to ensure a game doesn't break out.

[Scrumhead]

Wiese is a very good player but he’s a liability with his clearout technique.

To go in like that in your first game back after a 4 game ban is just brainless.

[Digby]

You watch Ford play so sublimely in the Prem and then you think that as well as they play are Smith and Simmonds, who have the pleasure of playing in superior teams, going to be better than him for Eng and come to conclusion of probably not.

Or you conclude not only are Smith and/or Simmonds superior they are vastly superior and Eddie is crucially undermining the side by refusing to pick such obvious brilliance whilst continuing with such mediocrity if not dross.

[FKAS]

Wiese is a very good player but he’s a liability with his clearout technique.

To go in like that in your first game back after a 4 game ban is just brainless.

100%. Completely unnecessary.

TMO insists Dickson rule out a Tigers try for use of an elbow but can't show any footage of a 'blocker' some 20m away from where the try is being scored using the elbow. Dickson bottles it completely after saying he can't see it but says he'll go with the TMO.

Neat try by Stuart for Falcons.

[Bored Falcon]

You watch Ford play so sublimely in the Prem and then you think that as well as they play are Smith and Simmonds, who have the pleasure of playing in superior teams, going to be better than him for Eng and come to conclusion of probably not.

Or you conclude not only are Smith and/or Simmonds superior they are vastly superior and Eddie is crucially undermining the side by refusing to pick such obvious brilliance whilst continuing with such mediocrity if not dross.

I'd have Smith on the bench and drop Faz from the squad, tbh.

[Scrumhead]

You watch Ford play so sublimely in the Prem and then you think that as well as they play are Smith and Simmonds, who have the pleasure of playing in superior teams, going to be better than him for Eng and come to conclusion of probably not.

Or you conclude not only are Smith and/or Simmonds superior they are vastly superior and Eddie is crucially undermining the side by refusing to pick such obvious brilliance whilst continuing with such mediocrity if not dross.

But how can you conclude that when neither Simmonds or Smith have ever played in a test match?

It’s completely fair to say that they should have had that opportunity but to say that they are ‘vastly superior’ and infer that Ford is ‘dross’ is extreme hyperbole based simply upon your own opinion. It has no basis in actual fact so it certainly wouldn’t be my conclusion.

[fivepointer]

I think most of us on here regard Ford highly. But he isnt going to last forever and it would be nice to see someone brought into the England squad who could a) challenge his position in the side, b) fill in for him if injured and c) take over long term from him.
unless, of course, you want to have Farrell at 10......

The game itself was a very mixed bag. I'm enjoying Steward's development.

[Digby]

You watch Ford play so sublimely in the Prem and then you think that as well as they play are Smith and Simmonds, who have the pleasure of playing in superior teams, going to be better than him for Eng and come to conclusion of probably not.

Or you conclude not only are Smith and/or Simmonds superior they are vastly superior and Eddie is crucially undermining the side by refusing to pick such obvious brilliance whilst continuing with such mediocrity if not dross.

But how can you conclude that when neither Simmonds or Smith have ever played in a test match?

It’s completely fair to say that they should have had that opportunity but to say that they are ‘vastly superior’ and infer that Ford is ‘dross’ is extreme hyperbole based simply upon your own opinion. It has no basis in actual fact so it certainly wouldn’t be my conclusion.

Welcome to the internet, where you can hold a position no mater how absurd for seconds, switch to another no matter how absurd, continue to switch and declare anyone who doesn't follow your logic to be a cretin.

Mostly it feels like fans watch a player, see them do well or do well in part, like that player and then consider they would not only be a worthwhile inclusion to the test side but superior to some of those options. Results play a big part in this.

And it's interesting, Eddie got away with ditching Care, with treating Isiekwe really poorly, with picking Hartley, Brown, Haskell and Robshaw, because the rugby whilst dull was getting results. Now they're trying to play some better, or at least quicker stuff and because it's not delivering results he's under much more pressure.

I'm much more enthused by England tactically than I have been for a long time

[FKAS]

I think most of us on here regard Ford highly. But he isnt going to last forever and it would be nice to see someone brought into the England squad who could a) challenge his position in the side, b) fill in for him if injured and c) take over long term from him.
unless, of course, you want to have Farrell at 10......

The game itself was a very mixed bag. I'm enjoying Steward's development.

Which I'd hope is the point of the summer tour. Give the uncapped or the inexperienced game time to stake a claim.

Steward us developing nicely, good to see him running nice lines in attack. Kelly is starting to thrive at 12 and was exceptional today, he's still only 19 as well but Borthwick has now stuck with him for three successive games rotating the experienced centres at 13. He's Irish and English qualified. Wonder if Eddie might give him a cap just to tie him to England rather than risk a battle for him later on if he keeps developing well.

[Gloskarlos]

Tigers defence looks very good, problem I have is there are a couple too many cheap shot merchants in that tigs team, it rankles a little, understand Borthwick wants a hard nosed set of forwards, but if we are trying to protect players this attitude has to go.

[Cameo]

Or you conclude not only are Smith and/or Simmonds superior they are vastly superior and Eddie is crucially undermining the side by refusing to pick such obvious brilliance whilst continuing with such mediocrity if not dross.

But how can you conclude that when neither Simmonds or Smith have ever played in a test match?

It’s completely fair to say that they should have had that opportunity but to say that they are ‘vastly superior’ and infer that Ford is ‘dross’ is extreme hyperbole based simply upon your own opinion. It has no basis in actual fact so it certainly wouldn’t be my conclusion.

Welcome to the internet, where you can hold a position no mater how absurd for seconds, switch to another no matter how absurd, continue to switch and declare anyone who doesn't follow your logic to be a cretin.

Mostly it feels like fans watch a player, see them do well or do well in part, like that player and then consider they would not only be a worthwhile inclusion to the test side but superior to some of those options. Results play a big part in this.

And it's interesting, Eddie got away with ditching Care, with treating Isiekwe really poorly, with picking Hartley, Brown, Haskell and Robshaw, because the rugby whilst dull was getting results. Now they're trying to play some better, or at least quicker stuff and because it's not delivering results he's under much more pressure.

I'm much more enthused by England tactically than I have been for a long time

I get that England showed a bit more attack Vs Wales and France but one of the main reasons people have gone off Jones is tactics. He was adamant that it was now impossible to play ball in hand, and for the Nation's Cup (which weirdly you won) and the first game of the 6N England played stultifying rugby against teams they should have been trying to impose themselves on. They largely reverted to that against Ireland, after their onegood performance. This surely also contributed to the mistakes when the more expansive gameplan was tried.

If I was English, I too would be encouraged by some of the attack this 6N, but I would also have serious concerns over Jones. More tactically than selection wise but don't think he is faultless there.

[Digby]

I get that England showed a bit more attack Vs Wales and France but one of the main reasons people have gone off Jones is tactics. He was adamant that it was now impossible to play ball in hand, and for the Nation's Cup (which weirdly you won) and the first game of the 6N England played stultifying rugby against teams they should have been trying to impose themselves on. They largely reverted to that against Ireland, after their onegood performance. This surely also contributed to the mistakes when the more expansive gameplan was tried.

If I was English, I too would be encouraged by some of the attack this 6N, but I would also have serious concerns over Jones. More tactically than selection wise but don't think he is faultless there.

It has been hugely frustrating that Jones has waited until now to play more ball in hand, but he has now. And we tried to play more in every game, but too many penalties, costing possession and territory just hammered us, and then Ireland also did a bit of a number on out set piece and breakdown

Whether he can get some extra carriers in to support this new found intent to play, or whether he reverts to boring us all I don't know. And there is we barely moved the ball out of contact this 6N, Eddie perhaps learning to trust in small steps, but if we can add some offloads to what's happened then we'll be getting somewhere.

I'm not disheartened by some of the mistakes on attack, they were always going to have to learn once they tried. It was the not trying that was vexing me. Looking at the speculation about Eddie getting fired a reasonable number think about it quite differently

[FKAS]

Tigers defence looks very good, problem I have is there are a couple too many cheap shot merchants in that tigs team, it rankles a little, understand Borthwick wants a hard nosed set of forwards, but if we are trying to protect players this attitude has to go.

I don't know about cheap shot merchants. We have a South African with anger issues and lack of brain cells but outside of Weise I don't think we have anyone else who's a card likely liability. Everytime Weise is on the pitch and I hear the TMO mention the need to review a ruck entry I do shut my eyes in anticipation for the bad news. He is, however, the number 8 we've been desperate for, for about 10 years so we'll take a rough diamond that needs some work.

The Tigers pack has been a bit soft in recent times and Borthwick has given back an edge. Generally the discipline is actually a little better and the defence has some bite. I doubt Borthwick has any interest in making friends, he'd be happy for his side to be the most ruthless bunch of bastards in the league and quite frankly few Tigers fans will have a problem with that if it means we are back competing for titles. The classic Tigers sides weren't exactly cuddly sides to play against, back in the early 2000s if you had to bet on which Tigers player would throw the first punch you'd find it hard to pick.

Can we keep talk to the clubs, analysing England and Eddie is already being done on multiple other threads.

[Puja]

Tigers defence looks very good, problem I have is there are a couple too many cheap shot merchants in that tigs team, it rankles a little, understand Borthwick wants a hard nosed set of forwards, but if we are trying to protect players this attitude has to go.

I don't know about cheap shot merchants. We have a South African with anger issues and lack of brain cells but outside of Weise I don't think we have anyone else who's a card likely liability. Everytime Weise is on the pitch and I hear the TMO mention the need to review a ruck entry I do shut my eyes in anticipation for the bad news. He is, however, the number 8 we've been desperate for, for about 10 years so we'll take a rough diamond that needs some work.

The Tigers pack has been a bit soft in recent times and Borthwick has given back an edge. Generally the discipline is actually a little better and the defence has some bite. I doubt Borthwick has any interest in making friends, he'd be happy for his side to be the most ruthless bunch of bastards in the league and quite frankly few Tigers fans will have a problem with that if it means we are back competing for titles. The classic Tigers sides weren't exactly cuddly sides to play against, back in the early 2000s if you had to bet on which Tigers player would throw the first punch you'd find it hard to pick.

Can we keep talk to the clubs, analysing England and Eddie is already being done on multiple other threads.

Well, we've got one other, but he's off to France soon thankfully.

Wiese is really worrying. He's such a good player in the carry and, as you say he's just what we've needed for years, but his lack of control is making him close to being a liability. There was no judgement in that smash on Wilson and it was pure luck that he didn't hit his head and get a 6 week ban (as he wouldn't get mitigation this time).

Good solid victory today, but we left the bonus point out there on the table for the umpteenth time by failing to take our opportunities in the first half. It's notable that Irish are 3 points ahead of us in the table, despite having won 2 fewer games.

Puja

[FKAS]

To be fair with Lavanini he came with a reputation for liking a bit of thuggery but we haven't seen any of that. Brain farts where he gives unnecessary penalties away certainly. I'm not sure he's ever showed he's worth the rumoured salary we are paying him so I'm not overly concerned about him heading off.

We've got to tone Weise down at the breakdown, I agree he could easily have made contact with Wilson's head and then had a six week lay off. I hope next week he's given lots of training which focuses on him wrapping both bloody arms when tackling and clearly players from rucks.

[Digby]

You'd hope he gets a rest anyway. That was nothing but a cheap shot on Welsh if being really kind about it. It doesn't belong in the game, frankly he doesn't belong in the game if that's his play.

Oddly the game might be okay with that in the game