RugbyRebels

1. Marler - you start your best scrummagers.
2. LCD - you have ammends to be made.
3. Sinckler - our best all-round prop.
4. Isiekwe - shirt's his until we have a better option.
5. Itoje.
6. Chessum - Ludlum went well enough, but he just didn't work well with Curry, who's a shoe-in. Chessum seems to have overtaken Martin, against Italy, I'd make this pick even if Lawes is fit, he can come back in for the bigger matches.
7. Curry (c).
8. Simmonds - if we're going for him over Dombrandt then so be it. Needs some raw power elsewhere in the back row though, so again, Ludlam's out. Oh for a fit Barbeary!

9. Quirke - he's already better than YBY, and if we can't omit Young's against Italy, when can we?
10. Smith - needs time to get his feet under the table.
11. Radwan / OHC - a real winger.
12. Slade - it's still his position of best fit, and he's starting to learn how to play there. He's got the advantage over Atkinson of actually being good enough to wear an England shirt on merit.
13. Marchant - f*** me, a balanced midfield? It'll never catch on.
14. Malins - he's well on the way to being everything Daly was supposed to be, except he does in on grass, not just paper.
15. Steward - may not be exciting, but there's something very comforting about having a rock at the back.

16. George.
17. Genge.
18. Stuart.
19. Ewels .
20. Ludlam - doesn't personally deserve to be dropped, but sacrificed in the name of balance.

21. Randall / JvP / Mitchell / Spencer / Carr-Smith / Riley.
22. Ford (gotta have a specialist FH).
23. Daly - ability to provide cover is always useful on the bench, and maybe he'd actually be trusted with 29 minutes, rather than 20 seconds.

Spot on that except that I'd give Launchbury a comfortable game to get back in. We are assuming that Hill and Lawes will not be fit??

I was assuming Hill not fit, and Launch not in the squad - otherwise either on the bench (get some international game-time into Isiekwe)
Lawes... I'm not sure on, if he's 100%, then sure, but if we can't experiment with his backup against Italy, when can we, so if he's anything less than 100%, I wouldn't.

I agree I'd start Quirke for this one as long as he comes through today's game ok. He's clearly the future so got to build up his experience. Youngs can bench as Randall isn't up to international rugby and Eddie doesn't trust him so there's no point him being there.

I'd keep Genge at loosehead though, he played well and was completely on top at scrum time. Marler was pretty quiet and it makes sense that he's on at the same time as out of form Stuart. I'm not really sure why Stuart keeps getting picked.

Back line I'd be tempted to bring Atkinson in. Smith looked like he needed a get out ball yesterday and Slade isn't really a 12. Give Marchant the roaming role he should have had yesterday and actually use Steward. A bit of consistency in selection might help us.

I think Chessum is there as the apprentice this time round. He might deserve a chance on form but I doubt he'll get one.

Genge, LCD, Sinckler
Itoje, Isiekwe
Ludlum, Simmonds, Curry
Quirke, Smith
Atkinson, Slade
Marchant, Steward, Malins

George, Marler, Stuart, Ewels, Dombrandt, Youngs, Ford, Radwan

The bench forwards are a bit of a concern. They offered very little in the way of impact. Chessum for Ewels would be a preference but as I've said I can't see it happening. We could do with a genuine alternative to Stuart as well. He's a bit of an empty shirt at present.

If Lawes or Hill are fit I'd have them in the row a heartbeat and Isiekwe to the bench.

My increasing worry is that the Exeter players just aren't ever going to shine regularly at international level in this system. I fear England need to go all in on that way (which I'd be sceptical about) or give up on Slade, Simmonds and LCD...

Silly question. If Jones doesn’t trust Randall and Quirke is the future then why?

Surely Raphie can sit on a bench for 80mins without upsetting the game plan

Mr Mwenda wrote:My increasing worry is that the Exeter players just aren't ever going to shine regularly at international level in this system. I fear England need to go all in on that way (which I'd be sceptical about) or give up on Slade, Simmonds and LCD...

Hill was beginning to look the part, though, unless you don't count him now he's leaving Devon.

Mr Mwenda wrote:My increasing worry is that the Exeter players just aren't ever going to shine regularly at international level in this system. I fear England need to go all in on that way (which I'd be sceptical about) or give up on Slade, Simmonds and LCD...

Mixed on that, LCD (brain fart aside) has been going well, I thought Simmonds was ok (and had Lawes been fit would maybe have been better), and Slade is getting some stick, but is settling into effectively a brand new position; I guess I mildly agree that Slade should probably be appearing more at 12 in defence for Exeter to properly learn the job.

And the latter point is important- backs need to learn their roles, and interchanging can be unhelpful, even if I get what he's trying to do.

Oakboy wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:My increasing worry is that the Exeter players just aren't ever going to shine regularly at international level in this system. I fear England need to go all in on that way (which I'd be sceptical about) or give up on Slade, Simmonds and LCD...

Hill was beginning to look the part, though, unless you don't count him now he's leaving Devon.

Beginning to look the part isn't the same as having made it consistently.

I think they're all decent players, it's just not clicking like it does at club level. E.g. Simmonds had a decent game but seldom made ground. Indeed, the Scots were keeping an eye on him and targeted him for turnovers.

LCD has been right on the money at this level. Slade no worse or better than he is for club. Hill has grown and adds that missing gnarly edge. As for Simmonds tough to judge his whole international future on yesterday (though I think he went well, carrying hard into traffic)

Scotland were just top drawer without the ball. Outsmarted us.

Mr Mwenda wrote:My increasing worry is that the Exeter players just aren't ever going to shine regularly at international level in this system. I fear England need to go all in on that way (which I'd be sceptical about) or give up on Slade, Simmonds and LCD...

Why just Exeter players? Who has kicked on or come into the side and made a big difference since the WC?

Of the new players i'd say Steward has done well so far but its early days.

fivepointer wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:My increasing worry is that the Exeter players just aren't ever going to shine regularly at international level in this system. I fear England need to go all in on that way (which I'd be sceptical about) or give up on Slade, Simmonds and LCD...

Why just Exeter players? Who has kicked on or come into the side and made a big difference since the WC?

Of the new players i'd say Steward has done well so far but its early days.

That's fair. It just seems that the transition from a sarries core to an Exeter one hasn't been the launch pad I was hoping it could be.

I'd probably have Malins as another who was in credit before yesterday.

FKAS wrote: Youngs can bench as Randall isn't up to international rugby and Eddie doesn't trust him so there's no point him being there.

Bit harsh writing Randell off after only 2 appearances and one of those he was MoM!

Steward was poor yesterday but allowed one poor performance amongst all the good ones I guess. Quirke gave Care a master class at the Stoop today

It doesn't matter what team Jones picks. They will hump the hapless Italy (13 starting players from the lowly club side Benetton) and look great, but he will learn nothing new. Then revert to the tried and boring for the next game.

jimKRFC wrote:

FKAS wrote: Youngs can bench as Randall isn't up to international rugby and Eddie doesn't trust him so there's no point him being there.

Bit harsh writing Randell off after only 2 appearances and one of those he was MoM!

He played Vs USA and Canada. It's hardly a testing atmosphere. He may well improve and comeback into contention but currently he's in the squad to make up the numbers whilst Quirke is getting game time. He needs to develop a box kicking game that's consistently good and varied. If he adds that in then Eddie might change his mind.

chris1850 wrote:Steward was poor yesterday but allowed one poor performance amongst all the good ones I guess. Quirke gave Care a master class at the Stoop today

Other than one shanked kick he dealt comfortably with everything. England's attacking malaise meant he never got the ball in an occasion he wasn't static and facing a wall of defenders. We want more from him but we'd have given our left arm for a solid fullback in crappy conditions in seasons gone by.

I really don't understand why we've ceased using Steward charging into the line from deep. The combination of him arriving late and at full tilt plus Smith's delayed passing worked very nicely in the AIs. Didn't feature once yesterday and that has to be a coaching directive.

chris1850 wrote:Steward was poor yesterday but allowed one poor performance amongst all the good ones I guess. Quirke gave Care a master class at the Stoop today

he dropped one easy ball, but poor?

FKAS wrote:

chris1850 wrote:Steward was poor yesterday but allowed one poor performance amongst all the good ones I guess. Quirke gave Care a master class at the Stoop today

Other than one shanked kick he dealt comfortably with everything. England's attacking malaise meant he never got the ball in an occasion he wasn't static and facing a wall of defenders. We want more from him but we'd have given our left arm for a solid fullback in crappy conditions in seasons gone by.

I really don't understand why we've ceased using Steward charging into the line from deep. The combination of him arriving late and at full tilt plus Smith's delayed passing worked very nicely in the AIs. Didn't feature once yesterday and that has to be a coaching directive.

on the latter yes, but its all linked to Eddies three centre idea, which, like having the 15 as playmaker causes consequences out of kilter with benefit. Overthinking.

FKAS wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:

FKAS wrote: Youngs can bench as Randall isn't up to international rugby and Eddie doesn't trust him so there's no point him being there.

Bit harsh writing Randell off after only 2 appearances and one of those he was MoM!

He played Vs USA and Canada. It's hardly a testing atmosphere. He may well improve and comeback into contention but currently he's in the squad to make up the numbers whilst Quirke is getting game time. He needs to develop a box kicking game that's consistently good and varied. If he adds that in then Eddie might change his mind.

Is the bolded bit true? I’ve never known Jones to think a player will improve with his club more than England. May have missed a quote, mind.

If it is Alex Sanderson was unaware of it. That said he probably does need game time

I just do get how Quirke has that showing vs SA, then Randall is favoured yet not worthy of even getting on the pitch. I wish we had some sort of clue who else was capable.

p/d wrote:If it is Alex Sanderson was unaware of it. That said he probably does need game time

Agreed, it just doesn’t sound like a Jones decision.

Mikey Brown wrote:I just do get how Quirke has that showing vs SA, then Randall is favoured yet not worthy of even getting on the pitch. I wish we had some sort of clue who else was capable.

Succession planning at 9 has been an omnishambles for Jones’s entire tenure.

Impressed with Italy today