RugbyRebels

15 Ahsee Tuala
14 Ollie Sleightholme
13 Fraser Dingwall (c)
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Courtnall Skosan
10 George Furbank
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Paul Hill
4 David Ribbans
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Tom Wood
7 Teimana Harrison
8 Juarno Augustus

Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Conor Carey
19 Alex Coles
20 Karl Wilkins
21 Tom James
22 James Grayson
23 Matt Proctor

Pretty much as strong a team as we can put out without our England absentees - Porter's there at 13 on form; he's really impressed me of late. Nadolo back is a big plus - hopefully Burns can get what Ford was getting out of having him there. Good to see Whitcombe given a run of games and a chance to prove himself.

Ashton making his debut against his old club from the bench is a fun story.

Puja

3 ex-Saints on the Tigers bench!

Grayson really seems to be out of favour for some reason. To be sat on the bench behind a fullback who has been away training with England seems odd.

À full house at Welford Rd could be in for a treat!

Adam_P wrote:3 ex-Saints on the Tigers bench!

Grayson really seems to be out of favour for some reason. To be sat on the bench behind a fullback who has been away training with England seems odd.

van Wyk, Ashton - who's the third? (ETA. A google informs me Clare played for your lot at one point. Didn't remember that)

In fairness on Furbank, I was sceptical when Jones said he was a 10, but he's actually looked very handy there whenever I've seen him play. If I had the choice between him and Grayson, I'd probably pick Furbank too.

Puja

Harsh in Grayson though. He’s always looked pretty good - certainly good enough to be second choice, possibly even a starter at Premiership level IMO.

Not sure when he’s contract is up, but I could easily see him leaving for game time.

Scrumhead wrote:Harsh in Grayson though. He’s always looked pretty good - certainly good enough to be second choice, possibly even a starter at Premiership level IMO.

Not sure when he’s contract is up, but I could easily see him leaving for game time.

Hmm not sure. Furbank has looked more assured to me and makes less mistakes. Great to see Fraser as skipper, and interesting they don't want to play Hutchinson at 13- defence.

For quite a while I thought 12 Dingwall, 13 Hutch was the best way round, mainly based on Hutch making many breaks on the outside at 13. But aside from Dingwall's defensive prowess being best used at 13, Hutchinson does a very good job at playing first receiver when playing at 12, which works especially well when Furbank is the 10.

Adam_P wrote:For quite a while I thought 12 Dingwall, 13 Hutch was the best way round, mainly based on Hutch making many breaks on the outside at 13. But aside from Dingwall's defensive prowess being best used at 13, Hutchinson does a very good job at playing first receiver when playing at 12, which works especially well when Furbank is the 10.

I think Dingwall is equally good at 12, but they don't trust Hutchinson's defence. If Proctor was fit for a long period I think we'd see Dingwall at 12 and Proctor at 13 as the first choice.

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Harsh in Grayson though. He’s always looked pretty good - certainly good enough to be second choice, possibly even a starter at Premiership level IMO.

Not sure when he’s contract is up, but I could easily see him leaving for game time.

Hmm not sure. Furbank has looked more assured to me and makes less mistakes. Great to see Fraser as skipper, and interesting they don't want to play Hutchinson at 13- defence.

I’d say Grayson is better than most 2nd choice 10s and better than some first choices. Tough on him being third choice IMO.

Scrumhead wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Harsh in Grayson though. He’s always looked pretty good - certainly good enough to be second choice, possibly even a starter at Premiership level IMO.

Not sure when he’s contract is up, but I could easily see him leaving for game time.

Hmm not sure. Furbank has looked more assured to me and makes less mistakes. Great to see Fraser as skipper, and interesting they don't want to play Hutchinson at 13- defence.

I’d say Grayson is better than most 2nd choice 10s and better than some first choices. Tough on him being third choice IMO.

I'd also argue that, irrespective of the individual merit of Furbank or Grayson at 10, that a 10/15 combo of Grayson/Furbank would make me more comfortable as a Saints fan than one of Furbank/Tuala

Scrumhead wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Harsh in Grayson though. He’s always looked pretty good - certainly good enough to be second choice, possibly even a starter at Premiership level IMO.

Not sure when he’s contract is up, but I could easily see him leaving for game time.

Hmm not sure. Furbank has looked more assured to me and makes less mistakes. Great to see Fraser as skipper, and interesting they don't want to play Hutchinson at 13- defence.

I’d say Grayson is better than most 2nd choice 10s and better than some first choices. Tough on him being third choice IMO.

Fair, but was explaining why I think Furbank starts there.

Adam_P wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

Banquo wrote: Hmm not sure. Furbank has looked more assured to me and makes less mistakes. Great to see Fraser as skipper, and interesting they don't want to play Hutchinson at 13- defence.

I’d say Grayson is better than most 2nd choice 10s and better than some first choices. Tough on him being third choice IMO.

I'd also argue that, irrespective of the individual merit of Furbank or Grayson at 10, that a 10/15 combo of Grayson/Furbank would make me more comfortable as a Saints fan than one of Furbank/Tuala

When I saw the team I did wonder why Saints were backing Tuala at the back against what is likely to be a number of testing kick chases. I'd have assumed that Furbank at the back fielding the kicks and then trying to move the ball quickly to one of the wing speedsters in space would have been the go to tactic.

Whilst we talk back three players, great to see Nadolo back. Here's hoping for another rampaging display against Saints and a similar result to earlier in the season.

JVP again on bench
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Discuss

I think JVP on the bench says more about Borthwick's lack of trust of Burn's ability to control the game more than anything. He seems to like Wigglesworth there as kicking comfort blanket to keep order and then use JVP to adjust the tempo in the second half with Hegarty possibly moving to 10 at a similar time. Ashton will be covering 15 as much as wing tonight, in fact I expect him to come on at fullback sometime between 65-70mins.

Nadolo isn't likely to be fit enough for 80 mins but Scott will go to 13 and Porter to Nadolo's wing.

Agree with Puja, Porter is at 13 on merit. He looks like he's spent time learning from Murimurivalu with some of his ball on hand play and tendency to pick from the base if he's quick to the breakdown. Slightly Moody esque in his commitment levels though with the habit of knocking himself out when going to charge downs.

p/d wrote:JVP again on bench
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Discuss

Oooh, we haven’t played the word association game in ages
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Javelinn

FKAS wrote:I think JVP on the bench says more about Borthwick's lack of trust of Burn's ability to control the game more than anything. He seems to like Wigglesworth there as kicking comfort blanket to keep order and then use JVP to adjust the tempo in the second half with Hegarty possibly moving to 10 at a similar time. Ashton will be covering 15 as much as wing tonight, in fact I expect him to come on at fullback sometime between 65-70mins.

Nadolo isn't likely to be fit enough for 80 mins but Scott will go to 13 and Porter to Nadolo's wing.

Agree with Puja, Porter is at 13 on merit. He looks like he's spent time learning from Murimurivalu with some of his ball on hand play and tendency to pick from the base if he's quick to the breakdown. Slightly Moody esque in his commitment levels though with the habit of knocking himself out when going to charge downs.

Ashton is an awful 15.

FKAS wrote:

Adam_P wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
I’d say Grayson is better than most 2nd choice 10s and better than some first choices. Tough on him being third choice IMO.

I'd also argue that, irrespective of the individual merit of Furbank or Grayson at 10, that a 10/15 combo of Grayson/Furbank would make me more comfortable as a Saints fan than one of Furbank/Tuala

When I saw the team I did wonder why Saints were backing Tuala at the back against what is likely to be a number of testing kick chases. I'd have assumed that Furbank at the back fielding the kicks and then trying to move the ball quickly to one of the wing speedsters in space would have been the go to tactic.

Whilst we talk back three players, great to see Nadolo back. Here's hoping for another rampaging display against Saints and a similar result to earlier in the season.

....I was at that game, and Grayson came on....and was awful. JVP came on and was terrific.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Adam_P wrote:
I'd also argue that, irrespective of the individual merit of Furbank or Grayson at 10, that a 10/15 combo of Grayson/Furbank would make me more comfortable as a Saints fan than one of Furbank/Tuala

When I saw the team I did wonder why Saints were backing Tuala at the back against what is likely to be a number of testing kick chases. I'd have assumed that Furbank at the back fielding the kicks and then trying to move the ball quickly to one of the wing speedsters in space would have been the go to tactic.

Whilst we talk back three players, great to see Nadolo back. Here's hoping for another rampaging display against Saints and a similar result to earlier in the season.

....I was at that game, and Grayson came on....and was awful. JVP came on and was terrific.

I was supposed to be at that game. Ended up watching it on my phone from the LRI whilst nil by mouth. About £50 down the drain.

To be fair to Grayson I don't think he was any worse than Biggar was that day.

Re Ashton At 15, it's not ideal but he has experience there and did rather well for Toulon at 15. The other option would have been Saumaki on the bench meaning Potter to 15 where he's played all of about 10 mins of Prem rugby and that was last weekend. As I said not ideal but a bit more cover at 15 than we'd have otherwise.

No more Jvp at 15 then?

FKAS wrote:

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:
When I saw the team I did wonder why Saints were backing Tuala at the back against what is likely to be a number of testing kick chases. I'd have assumed that Furbank at the back fielding the kicks and then trying to move the ball quickly to one of the wing speedsters in space would have been the go to tactic.

Whilst we talk back three players, great to see Nadolo back. Here's hoping for another rampaging display against Saints and a similar result to earlier in the season.

....I was at that game, and Grayson came on....and was awful. JVP came on and was terrific.

I was supposed to be at that game. Ended up watching it on my phone from the LRI whilst nil by mouth. About £50 down the drain.

To be fair to Grayson I don't think he was any worse than Biggar was that day.

Re Ashton At 15, it's not ideal but he has experience there and did rather well for Toulon at 15. The other option would have been Saumaki on the bench meaning Potter to 15 where he's played all of about 10 mins of Prem rugby and that was last weekend. As I said not ideal but a bit more cover at 15 than we'd have otherwise.

Will have to disagree on Grayson v Biggar but a low bar that day!

Ashton was prone to the odd mare at 15- remember sliced kick from under own goalposts. He was a terrific League full back, but a very different gig.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Banquo wrote: ....I was at that game, and Grayson came on....and was awful. JVP came on and was terrific.

I was supposed to be at that game. Ended up watching it on my phone from the LRI whilst nil by mouth. About £50 down the drain.

To be fair to Grayson I don't think he was any worse than Biggar was that day.

Re Ashton At 15, it's not ideal but he has experience there and did rather well for Toulon at 15. The other option would have been Saumaki on the bench meaning Potter to 15 where he's played all of about 10 mins of Prem rugby and that was last weekend. As I said not ideal but a bit more cover at 15 than we'd have otherwise.

Will have to disagree on Grayson v Biggar but a low bar that day!

Ashton was prone to the odd mare at 15- remember sliced kick from under own goalposts. He was a terrific League full back, but a very different gig.

I think you're doing Ashton a bit wrong there - he did a consistently excellent job from 15 for Toulon, but is only remembered for the one sliced kick cockup. And that was mostly Tuisova's fault for chucking a wild quick lineout to no-one, that left him back behind his own posts with no option but to kick hurriedly under pressure or concede a 5m scrum. I'd not have a problem with him playing 15 for Leicester given what he showed in France week-in-week-out.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:
I was supposed to be at that game. Ended up watching it on my phone from the LRI whilst nil by mouth. About £50 down the drain.

To be fair to Grayson I don't think he was any worse than Biggar was that day.

Re Ashton At 15, it's not ideal but he has experience there and did rather well for Toulon at 15. The other option would have been Saumaki on the bench meaning Potter to 15 where he's played all of about 10 mins of Prem rugby and that was last weekend. As I said not ideal but a bit more cover at 15 than we'd have otherwise.

Will have to disagree on Grayson v Biggar but a low bar that day!

Ashton was prone to the odd mare at 15- remember sliced kick from under own goalposts. He was a terrific League full back, but a very different gig.

I think you're doing Ashton a bit wrong there - he did a consistently excellent job from 15 for Toulon, but is only remembered for the one sliced kick cockup. And that was mostly Tuisova's fault for chucking a wild quick lineout to no-one, that left him back behind his own posts with no option but to kick hurriedly under pressure or concede a 5m scrum. I'd not have a problem with him playing 15 for Leicester given what he showed in France week-in-week-out.

Puja

Fair enough, though it was still his mare for me , and actually thanks for pointing out how well he'd gone at Toulon, I'd totally missed that- terrific try scoring- was that all from 15?. That said, how much has he actually played in the last year or so?

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: Will have to disagree on Grayson v Biggar but a low bar that day!

Ashton was prone to the odd mare at 15- remember sliced kick from under own goalposts. He was a terrific League full back, but a very different gig.

I think you're doing Ashton a bit wrong there - he did a consistently excellent job from 15 for Toulon, but is only remembered for the one sliced kick cockup. And that was mostly Tuisova's fault for chucking a wild quick lineout to no-one, that left him back behind his own posts with no option but to kick hurriedly under pressure or concede a 5m scrum. I'd not have a problem with him playing 15 for Leicester given what he showed in France week-in-week-out.

Puja

Fair enough, though it was still his mare for me , and actually thanks for pointing out how well he'd gone at Toulon, I'd totally missed that- terrific try scoring- was that all from 15?. That said, how much has he actually played in the last year or so?

I haven't got stats, but I believe the vast majority of his Toulon games were at 15. Reserve the right to be wrong though.

He's had close to sod all rugby in the last year or two with leaving Sale early, injury at Quins, then leaving Quins early, then injury at Wuss, then leaving Wuss early. Not a particularly inspiring recent track record, but I know he's been training with Leicester for a couple of weeks before he signed and Borthwick's got a lot of credit in the bank, so if he thinks he's a good risk to take then I'll back him.

Frankly, I'd expected him to go off and be a big fish in a small pond somewhere like MLR or the Japanese 2nd league. Be interesting to see how he comes back this time, as you'd suspect that this will be his last chance at a Premiership contract unless he makes the most of this opportunity.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
I think you're doing Ashton a bit wrong there - he did a consistently excellent job from 15 for Toulon, but is only remembered for the one sliced kick cockup. And that was mostly Tuisova's fault for chucking a wild quick lineout to no-one, that left him back behind his own posts with no option but to kick hurriedly under pressure or concede a 5m scrum. I'd not have a problem with him playing 15 for Leicester given what he showed in France week-in-week-out.

Puja

Fair enough, though it was still his mare for me , and actually thanks for pointing out how well he'd gone at Toulon, I'd totally missed that- terrific try scoring- was that all from 15?. That said, how much has he actually played in the last year or so?

I haven't got stats, but I believe the vast majority of his Toulon games were at 15. Reserve the right to be wrong though.

He's had close to sod all rugby in the last year or two with leaving Sale early, injury at Quins, then leaving Quins early, then injury at Wuss, then leaving Wuss early. Not a particularly inspiring recent track record, but I know he's been training with Leicester for a couple of weeks before he signed and Borthwick's got a lot of credit in the bank, so if he thinks he's a good risk to take then I'll back him.

Frankly, I'd expected him to go off and be a big fish in a small pond somewhere like MLR or the Japanese 2nd league. Be interesting to see how he comes back this time, as you'd suspect that this will be his last chance at a Premiership contract unless he makes the most of this opportunity.

Puja

Fair dinkum.