Bye Squeaky

[Banquo]

some will be rejoicing- finishing the agreement tween club and country and offski

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/andrew ... all-union/

[Mellsblue]

some will be rejoicing- finishing the agreement tween club and country and offski

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/andrew ... all-union/

Squeaky, bum time.

[Oakboy]

some will be rejoicing- finishing the agreement tween club and country and offski

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/andrew ... all-union/

As you say, split opinions on Andrew. What about Melville, though?

[Banquo]

some will be rejoicing- finishing the agreement tween club and country and offski

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/andrew ... all-union/

As you say, split opinions on Andrew. What about Melville, though?

Herman? Bit of a dick

Nigel- could have been a great 9. Is he rumoured to be taking the role?

[Oakboy]

some will be rejoicing- finishing the agreement tween club and country and offski

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/andrew ... all-union/

As you say, split opinions on Andrew. What about Melville, though?

Herman? Bit of a dick

Nigel- could have been a great 9. Is he rumoured to be taking the role?

Nigel, yes, according to the BBC. Been doing something similar in the US apparently.

[Digby]

I arrive home to open a beer and read this, I feel contented

[Banquo]

I arrive home to open a beer and read this, I feel contented

....think you'll have to defer that, depending on who gets appointed!

[Digby]

I arrive home to open a beer and read this, I feel contented

....think you'll have to defer that, depending on who gets appointed!

Will I need to defer both beer and contentment? frankly you can have the contentment if you leave me enough beer.

[Stom]

I may be in a large minority, but I thought he did a very good job in testing circumstances. His part of the setup has performed well, tbh, and we're starting to see the fruits of the agreements now.

[Puja]

I may be in a large minority, but I thought he did a very good job in testing circumstances. His part of the setup has performed well, tbh, and we're starting to see the fruits of the agreements now.

Agreed. When he stayed away from coaches or coaching, he did a good job in my opinion. We've had a very good partnership between clubs and country for a while now.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Pretty chuffed by that news, as I know some inside will be too. Makes my beer taste that little bit sweeter.

[Mellsblue]

Pretty damning stuff from the times:


Man who followed when he should have been leading
Rob Andrew’s tenure at the RFU was at its all-time low after the 2011 World Cup, when England failed badly and embarrassingly and it was Martin Johnson, the manager, who carried the can. Andrew, who had appointed him, survived and struggled to retain his credibility.
His time at Twickenham straddles a decade of astonishing underperformance by the team. His CV reflects an era when new coaches became ex-coaches, but it was not Johnson’s taking down that was his greatest error, it was the manner of his appointment.
In hiring Johnson, Andrew was following his superiors. Where he failed was in neither challenging his orders, nor insisting that Johnson could take over but only under specific provisos: requisite support, mentoring and advice.
When he was in charge of performance, when England needed a visionary, Andrew was more of a facilitator of instructions. He was an employee led by his bosses rather than take high performance in English rugby in the direction that he believed in. There have been RFU employees who have been desperate to drag England forward but too often they came up against a slow system with Andrew, below, at its heart.
The changes in his title reflected the fluctuations of his influence on high performance in the RFU. The changes at the top announced yesterday therefore indicate a breath of fresh air.
To discount Andrew’s contribution completely would be to ignore the areas where he had a positive effect. His dealings with the clubs were a success.
However, in appointing Nigel Melville, the RFU has hired a leader. Melville’s work in the United States was ground-breaking. The RFU has a man who will want to lead the world of high performance.
Andrew’s departure follows that of Joe Lydon, who had been Head of International Player Development. Lydon was not a conspicuous success.
So the RFU’s clear-out gives it a chance to start afresh. Melville’s job straddles Andrew’s and Lydon’s, so he has a huge remit and his appointment should be followed by another senior appointment in the performance department.
England have a chance to go forwards. Yesterday was a day for comings and goings, but it could also be when the longterm product took a major lurch forward.

[fivepointer]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... -long-ago/

Cleary non too complementary but nothing new there, I think, but at least he and the other writer concede that Andrew made a positive contribution in some areas.

We'll see what Melville brings to the role. He has the background and experience to make a mark.

[Oakboy]

I have never met Rob Andrew but a mate of mine who took the lads from his school rugby XV on a Twickenham visit is vitriolic in his condemnation. Apparently, Andrew was the only one of the rugby 'celebrities' there for the occasion who refused to chat to the kids (claimed he was on his break????). His attitude was dismissive to the point of arrogant rudeness reportedly.

Maybe that was a one-off and not typical. However, the journalists who condemn sound like they have issues with the guy. They tend to knock those who are not approachable.

[Lizard]

Pretty damning stuff from the times:

...

Andrew’s departure follows that of Joe Lydon, who had been Head of International Player Development. Lydon was not a conspicuous success.
...

That explains a lot. Surely a Head of English Player Development might have made more sense, rather than focussing on your international imports.

[Digby]

Pretty damning stuff from the times:

...

Andrew’s departure follows that of Joe Lydon, who had been Head of International Player Development. Lydon was not a conspicuous success.
...

That explains a lot. Surely a Head of English Player Development might have made more sense, rather than focussing on your international imports.

It's not just our imports such is our benevolence

[loudnconfident]

Hi

Good DT article from Brian Moore I felt. "Rob Andrew's RFU role mirrors playing career - wrongly blamed for things which are not true"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... lamed-for/

Rob Andrew and I are not friends. We have had many conversations about rugby but I doubt in the 30 or so years we have known each other that we have had more than a handful of personal conversations. I say this to counter inevitable claims of bias from those who, despite having never met Andrew, say they do not like him and believe he has done little for English rugby.

Part of that dislike comes from the fact that, as a player, Andrew had not the élan of Stuart Barnes. Though factually England’s try-scoring record was good during his tenure, he is remembered only for kicking. Seventy-one caps for England and five for the British Lions should speak for themselves but they appear not to do so.

If you honestly assess a person’s performance you have to examine positives and negatives, without giving undue weight to either, before coming to a conclusion. Many judgments on Andrew, who will stand down from his position at the Rugby Football Union at the end of the season, start from a partisan conclusion and work back to justify the view.

Andrew has been criticised for his appointment of England coaches but the only appointment he made of a permanent head coach, solely and without direction, was that of Brian Ashton. Despite having subsequently achieved a 2007 World Cup final, a review of Ashton that was ordered by the RFU management board came with a covert instruction to appoint Martin Johnson.

Despite pressure Andrew recommended retaining Ashton but was overruled and told to do the Johnson deal. I wrote at the time, and still believe, that at that point Andrew should have resigned. He did not and this lacked fortitude, though you have to ask how many other people, including yourself, have done so.

In the background to all this was a toxic internecine battle between the then chief executive, Francis Baron, and chairman of the management board, Martyn Thomas. Much of the information given to the press throughout was unconscionably leaked and biased.

During the conflict over the appointment of John Steele to replace Baron in 2010, the impression was purposefully created that Andrew had blocked Clive Woodward’s claim. It is my understanding that Baron tried to engage Woodward without full consultation and, because Woodward was still with the BOA, did so in secret.

Thomas and many others at management level blocked Woodward’s return; Andrew did not have the power to do so. Much was made of Andrew’s subsequent change of role to director of rugby operations but that was only one change in Steele’s structural reorganisation of the whole rugby department. Ironically, Steel himself departed after a mere 10 months due to continuing controversy over Woodward which, though denied, was stoked by deliberately misleading leaks.

After the 2011 RWC debacle, Andrew was alleged to not have supported Johnson properly, but this was explicitly denied by Johnson. Meanwhile, the RFU’s corporate governance was so bad at that point it had no CEO and no board chairman. The interim CEO, Steve Brown, asked Andrew to find an interim coach for the 2012 Six Nations and he chose Stuart Lancaster. Following England’s second place in that Six Nations, the new CEO, Ian Ritchie, asked Andrew to be on a panel of five to appoint the next full time head coach. Ian McGeechan, Conor O’Shea, Ritchie, Andrew and Richard Hill gave the job to Lancaster full time. From that point Andrew had no role at all with the national team.

After Lancaster’s home World Cup failure many people were ignorant of those facts or chose to ignore them. If Andrew was at fault he was one of five, none of whom attracted similar media or social media opprobrium.

‘What the hell does he do?’ was the question asked by many calling for Andrew to be sacked. I had to explain that you cannot sack somebody from a job due to alleged failures in another job, while pointing out it was, perhaps, a little precipitous to call for a sacking while concurrently admitting you do not know what the person actually does.

Andrew’s main role throughout his 10 years with the RFU was the management of the agreement between the professional clubs and the RFU. He brokered and ran the 2008-2016 deal and all but completed the forthcoming deal. The creation and maintenance of those agreements is central to the good of the English elite game and it is not a simple task. Look at the regions and Welsh Rugby Union and the clubs and the FFR if you want to see what happens when it goes wrong.

Andrew’s RFU tenure mirrors his playing career – wrongly blamed for things which were not true; solid, important but unspectacular achievements and mistakes, which we all make. Have your view of Andrew but before you judge, note these facts

[Mellsblue]

So, in 10 years he brokered two deals, albeit very important ones, put in place the academy structure and appointed one coach. Even if you think those successes, and I wouldn't include Ashton as head coach as one, it's hardly a weighty body of work.

[loudnconfident]

and he was on £300k pa at the time. I can understand why he did'nt resign, and hung on. Families need feeding...

[Digby]

I was part way to penning a response to that Moore article (not perhaps as lengthy, though likely equally dull) when I stumbled on the happy thought I simply didn't care enough about what he'd written.

[Epaminondas Pules]

So, in 10 years he brokered two deals, albeit very important ones, put in place the academy structure and appointed one coach. Even if you think those successes, and I wouldn't include Ashton as head coach as one, it's hardly a weighty body of work.

Did he put in the academy structure?

[Mellsblue]

So, in 10 years he brokered two deals, albeit very important ones, put in place the academy structure and appointed one coach. Even if you think those successes, and I wouldn't include Ashton as head coach as one, it's hardly a weighty body of work.

Did he put in the academy structure?

I assumed he had as he seems to get widely get credited for it but having done some research he can't have done. Has he somehow refined or improved the system? If not, the body of work looks even less weighty.

[Banquo]

So, in 10 years he brokered two deals, albeit very important ones, put in place the academy structure and appointed one coach. Even if you think those successes, and I wouldn't include Ashton as head coach as one, it's hardly a weighty body of work.

Did he put in the academy structure?

I assumed he had as he seems to get widely get credited for it but having done some research he can't have done. Has he somehow refined or improved the system? If not, the body of work looks even less weighty.

I don't think he will get any credit for anything from some quarters, as we can see on this thread. Its exactly the point Moore is making. Its the penalty of appearing to be smug.

I do blame him (and John Hall) for the mad wages that pro Rugby in the UK started with and killed a number of clubs- albeit ones that should have known better.

[Epaminondas Pules]

So, in 10 years he brokered two deals, albeit very important ones, put in place the academy structure and appointed one coach. Even if you think those successes, and I wouldn't include Ashton as head coach as one, it's hardly a weighty body of work.

Did he put in the academy structure?

I assumed he had as he seems to get widely get credited for it but having done some research he can't have done. Has he somehow refined or improved the system? If not, the body of work looks even less weighty.

Brian Ashton oversaw the restructuring of the academy which was prior to Andrew joining the RFU.