RugbyRebels

How the labour party threw two elections and is full of bullying, fascistic racist thugs.


They talk nice when in public though so that's alright...

Welcome to politics. And I've seen this shit before. Is Crosby-Textor still involved with the Tories? This is totally their MO, especially when Truss has had no positive impact on the polls.

This is who labour are....

The adults are in the room.

"Government in waiting"

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:30 pm The adults are in the room.

"Government in waiting"

I mean, it's not a manifesto or anything, but it does appear to be some kind of positive morals and principles which a) is novel for Starmer's leadership as previously all we had was a list of cool stuff that they promised the Conservatives that they wouldn't do, and b) is a pretty good differentiator from Truss, who thinks ethics is where the sole UKIP MP used to be.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:09 pm

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:30 pm The adults are in the room.

"Government in waiting"

I mean, it's not a manifesto or anything, but it does appear to be some kind of positive morals and principles which a) is novel for Starmer's leadership as previously all we had was a list of cool stuff that they promised the Conservatives that they wouldn't do, and b) is a pretty good differentiator from Truss, who thinks ethics is where the sole UKIP MP used to be.

Puja

Labours hierarchy of racism in full effect.

As it seems to be so important to you...why?

Why is it that important?

Stom wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:46 pm As it seems to be so important to you...why?

Why is it that important?

Why is it important that we have an effective opposition that isn't full of fascists?

Or why is it important to me that we have an opposition that doesn't operate a hierarchy of racism?

To lay out my credentials, I am no fan of Starmer. I also think that the Labour party has acted extremely shittily to its left-wing and there is no doubt that they stitched them up royally, probably sacrificing a chance of power in order to make sure the "enemy" wing of the party didn't win. I also appreciate that it's no fun being asked to swallow shit in the name of, "But you'll let the Tories win!"

That being said, the current government is rending apart the country in the name of trying out their unhinged Britannia Unchained economic theory. People are dying. People are starving. It's not quite the worst possible leadership that the Conservatives have available to them, but it's not far off.

If you had a guaranteed way to bring down Starmer, in a relatively bloodless fashion, and put in someone like Rayner in, I wouldn't turn a deaf ear. That is, of course, a fantasy and all that the above accomplishes is internecine warfare and more Truss (and is no doubt seeded by Conservative strategists). I've heard purists say, "Better 5 more years of Truss and prevent cementing the red Tories control over Labour", but to me, that's verging on wickedness - Truss and her policies will kill people. Saying you're happy with another 5 years means you're happy with people dying for your political purity - yes it's awful to eat shit in the name of "You'll let them win if you don't" and yes, the long term benefits of someone better may be better, but I'd rather take the win in 2024 than gamble on a potentially better win in 2029, especially since we may not have a functioning country at that point.

I don't like Starmer. At the moment, he is by far the lesser evil.

Puja

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:03 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:46 pm As it seems to be so important to you...why?

Why is it that important?

Why is it important that we have an effective opposition that isn't full of fascists?

Or why is it important to me that we have an opposition that doesn't operate a hierarchy of racism?

Because this stinks. The Labour party are obviously rotten, but they're a political party. It's kind of their definition. They're also not the Tories, who obviously know this, and are trying to make sure this shit sticks. Which they will do if you let it.

In my mind it's simple. This Tory party are pretty hard to characterise as anything but evil. So get rid of them. Bury them. And then once there's no chance of someone digging up their rotting corpse, do something about Labour.

I'd much rather Starmer and then someone like Ken Clarke than more Truss and then more of the same, because you know that's all that would happen.

Don't let the Tory party fuel the disgrace of the Labour party, just letting them continue their aim of turning the UK into the USA.

Was this thread intended to make some specific point about Labour or just generally slag them off?

Labour isn't exactly the biggest problem in UK politics at the moment.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:51 pm Was this thread intended to make some specific point about Labour or just generally slag them off?

Labour isn't exactly the biggest problem in UK politics at the moment.

The show was broadcast on thurs. This is a political forum.

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:17 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:51 pm Was this thread intended to make some specific point about Labour or just generally slag them off?

Labour isn't exactly the biggest problem in UK politics at the moment.

The show was broadcast on thurs. This is a political forum.

And the point you're making is?

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:44 pm

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:17 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:51 pm Was this thread intended to make some specific point about Labour or just generally slag them off?

Labour isn't exactly the biggest problem in UK politics at the moment.

The show was broadcast on thurs. This is a political forum.

And the point you're making is?

It's a discussion forum mate. For discussing things. Specifically politics in this area.

This thread is for specifically discussing the documentary that aired.

It’s a fair point to highlight labours anti semitism issue. It’s also not unreasonable to wonder if it’s completely gone away.

But the conservatives are now basically UKIP in blue rather than purple and the next election could be the first time I vote Labour to get shot of Truss and her utter shower.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:05 pm It’s a fair point to highlight labours anti semitism issue. It’s also not unreasonable to wonder if it’s completely gone away.

But the conservatives are now basically UKIP in blue rather than purple and the next election could be the first time I vote Labour to get shot of Truss and her utter shower.

I think one of the points being made in the doc is that there wasn't really an "issue". And in fact was exaggerated or fabricated to use against members.

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:29 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:05 pm It’s a fair point to highlight labours anti semitism issue. It’s also not unreasonable to wonder if it’s completely gone away.

But the conservatives are now basically UKIP in blue rather than purple and the next election could be the first time I vote Labour to get shot of Truss and her utter shower.

I think one of the points being made in the doc is that there wasn't really an "issue". And in fact was exaggerated or fabricated to use against members.

TBF, it probably wouldn't have been an issue at all if Corbyn et al hadn't been so dim witted about the whole thing.

Stom wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:52 pm

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:29 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:05 pm It’s a fair point to highlight labours anti semitism issue. It’s also not unreasonable to wonder if it’s completely gone away.

But the conservatives are now basically UKIP in blue rather than purple and the next election could be the first time I vote Labour to get shot of Truss and her utter shower.

I think one of the points being made in the doc is that there wasn't really an "issue". And in fact was exaggerated or fabricated to use against members.

TBF, it probably wouldn't have been an issue at all if Corbyn et al hadn't been so dim witted about the whole thing.

I'd suggest watching the doc if that's what you think

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:29 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:05 pm It’s a fair point to highlight labours anti semitism issue. It’s also not unreasonable to wonder if it’s completely gone away.

But the conservatives are now basically UKIP in blue rather than purple and the next election could be the first time I vote Labour to get shot of Truss and her utter shower.

I think one of the points being made in the doc is that there wasn't really an "issue". And in fact was exaggerated or fabricated to use against members.

I think most members would be horrified to be considered anti semitic or indeed racist in anynway. But clearly there was a minority who were. Any normal leadership would have suspended them, investigated and then banned those found guilty. Corbyn made it a bigger issue by his mismanagement.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:03 pm

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:29 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:05 pm It’s a fair point to highlight labours anti semitism issue. It’s also not unreasonable to wonder if it’s completely gone away.

But the conservatives are now basically UKIP in blue rather than purple and the next election could be the first time I vote Labour to get shot of Truss and her utter shower.

I think one of the points being made in the doc is that there wasn't really an "issue". And in fact was exaggerated or fabricated to use against members.

I think most members would be horrified to be considered anti semitic or indeed racist in anynway. But clearly there was a minority who were. Any normal leadership would have suspended them, investigated and then banned those found guilty. Corbyn made it a bigger issue by his mismanagement.

The disciplinary procedure was entirely independent of the leaders office. As is explained right at the beginning of the doc.

And any failings highlighted by ehrc were from before his time.

You're repeating untruths mate.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:44 pm And the point you're making is?

Would be great if you'd stop shitting up the thread and let the discussion go on.

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:06 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:03 pm

Stooo V2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:29 pm

I think one of the points being made in the doc is that there wasn't really an "issue". And in fact was exaggerated or fabricated to use against members.

I think most members would be horrified to be considered anti semitic or indeed racist in anynway. But clearly there was a minority who were. Any normal leadership would have suspended them, investigated and then banned those found guilty. Corbyn made it a bigger issue by his mismanagement.

The disciplinary procedure was entirely independent of the leaders office. As is explained right at the beginning of the doc.

And any failings highlighted by ehrc were from before his time.

You're repeating untruths mate.

I’m reading the Forde enquiry which suggests the complaints and investigations procedure was liable to be influenced by factions and wasn’t fit for purpose.