RugbyRebels

He's not wrong on some of those. I'd actually favour some people like Brown (and maybe Ford) not going on tour at all. They're out of form, they're unlikely to make the 1st XV, they've played a hell of a lot of rugby the last couple of years and they'll get a great deal more out of a summer off than they would out of sitting on the bench and having 15 minute cameos.

Puja

Agreed. I'd leave Brown, Ford, Robshaw, Haskell, Cole at home.

Makes sense to stand a few guys down.

Brown is way off form, Haskell and Robshaw look knackered. Lawes might profit from a break to get properly fit and Cole should definitely be left at home. I'd take Ford who hasn't played that much rugby this season.

Good news is that both George and Hartley are back for their clubs this weekend.

Eddie's mindset will be interesting as it's Australia. Will the desire to win influence him unduly? Some players should be rested and one or two should be discarded. Having won a GS, he should be thinking of the future. It's a classic case where development should be more important than results but I doubt he'll take that view.

Oakboy wrote:Eddie's mindset will be interesting as it's Australia. Will the desire to win influence him unduly? Some players should be rested and one or two should be discarded. Having won a GS, he should be thinking of the future. It's a classic case where development should be more important than results but I doubt he'll take that view.

Nope he has said he is wanting to win as many games as poss due to the world rankings and World cup draw in December.

Can't see him using this tour as a chance to develop, maybe next year.

We have a Saxons squad that he said is solely for development.

I think the decision on Brown is a tight one...

I wouldn't take Cole, and I would be tempted to not take Haskell, but I think he might be a useful presence in the dressing room. He does work hard, that's for sure.

It's a nothing article from Healey, surprisingly. It's what everyone thought may be a good idea, yet he said he wouldn't rest people, though nobody believes a word he says anyway. Which leaves us precisely no closer to predicting anything.

Assuming it is on the cards to rest people;

Resting Cole and myself certainly seems like a good idea. It's hard to tell if Ford needs a rest or he just needs some time playing with a semi-passable 1-9. Burns getting injured and Cipriani's troubles may decide this one.

Is Lawes rusty through lack of game time or is he still a bit injured? Last I'd seen he was actually (after years of nothing) starting to put himself about a bit again. He doesn't necessarily fall in to the group of our best locks anymore though.

Hask/Robshaw, we need to look at other options at some point, though they had a handful of their best performances recently so I'm not too set against it. Ideally we're using them more to bed in new players in the backrow.

I haven't read Healey's article but reacting to people's thoughts on here......

I think Ford has to go. Mainly as I think he's our long term 10 but also as he has yet to face ANZAC oppo away and hardly has any game time against them in total.

Cole needs a rest. How Eng and Leicester manage him is beyond reckless.

The backrow needs to evolve. I'd keep one of Robshaw and Haskell, I'd lean towards the former, but solely for experience sake.

I'd leave Brown at home. Not because he needs a rest, his concussion provided that, but because he's not on form and he's not the quality of player we need. If we want a strike runner then Watson is your man, if we want a playmaker then it's clearly not Brown.

I wouldn't take Lawes. If he were making the impact of 4/5 years ago he'd be worth the risk but he's not and he's permanently injured. I'd be tempted to rest Launch. He seems to have picked up a lot of minor/niggly injuries recently and doesn't need to prove anything. It would also give Slater a chance to stake his claim and actually get some minutes under his belt.

I'd rest Youngs Snr, soley because he can't pass.

Mellsblue wrote:
I'd rest Youngs Snr, soley because he can't pass.

But TBF Passing isn't the main job of a Hooker.

Mellsblue wrote:I haven't read Healey's article but reacting to people's thoughts on here......

I think Ford has to go. Mainly as I think he's our long term 10 but also as he has yet to face ANZAC oppo away and hardly has any game time against them in total.

Cole needs a rest. How Eng and Leicester manage him is beyond reckless.

The backrow needs to evolve. I'd keep one of Robshaw and Haskell, I'd lean towards the former, but solely for experience sake.

I'd leave Brown at home. Not because he needs a rest, his concussion provided that, but because he's not on form and he's not the quality of player we need. If we want a strike runner then Watson is your man, if we want a playmaker then it's clearly not Brown.

I wouldn't take Lawes. If he were making the impact of 4/5 years ago he'd be worth the risk but he's not and he's permanently injured. I'd be tempted to rest Launch. He seems to have picked up a lot of minor/niggly injuries recently and doesn't need to prove anything. It would also give Slater a chance to stake his claim and actually get some minutes under his belt.

I'd rest Youngs Snr, soley because he can't pass.

Just for sake of clarity, I agree I should not be going on form. It seems odd to make the Watson comparison, very different things offered by each player. I think it's probably related to having played more minutes of rugby than anyone else in the world in the last four seasons but that's not the point.

And surprisingly I agree on Ben Youngs. I'd probably rest him for a few seasons.

Tigersman wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:
I'd rest Youngs Snr, soley because he can't pass.

But TBF Passing isn't the main job of a Hooker.

Haha. Freudian slip, I get confused because Ben's gut looks more like that of a hooker

Mikey Brown wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I haven't read Healey's article but reacting to people's thoughts on here......

I think Ford has to go. Mainly as I think he's our long term 10 but also as he has yet to face ANZAC oppo away and hardly has any game time against them in total.

Cole needs a rest. How Eng and Leicester manage him is beyond reckless.

The backrow needs to evolve. I'd keep one of Robshaw and Haskell, I'd lean towards the former, but solely for experience sake.

I'd leave Brown at home. Not because he needs a rest, his concussion provided that, but because he's not on form and he's not the quality of player we need. If we want a strike runner then Watson is your man, if we want a playmaker then it's clearly not Brown.

I wouldn't take Lawes. If he were making the impact of 4/5 years ago he'd be worth the risk but he's not and he's permanently injured. I'd be tempted to rest Launch. He seems to have picked up a lot of minor/niggly injuries recently and doesn't need to prove anything. It would also give Slater a chance to stake his claim and actually get some minutes under his belt.

I'd rest Youngs Snr, soley because he can't pass.

Just for sake of clarity, I agree I should not be going on form. It seems odd to make the Watson comparison, very different things offered by each player. I think it's probably related to having played more minutes of rugby than anyone else in the world in the last four seasons but that's not the point.

And surprisingly I agree on Ben Youngs. I'd probably rest him for a few seasons.

I don't think they offer very different things. They are equally adept under the high ball, neither link play particularly well, Brown is the better tackler and Watson the better runner. I'd take Watson in the tackle v runner trade off. That's before I take into account Watson might be world class by Japan and Brown might be too old.

fivepointer wrote:Makes sense to stand a few guys down.

Brown is way off form, Haskell and Robshaw look knackered. Lawes might profit from a break to get properly fit and Cole should definitely be left at home. I'd take Ford who hasn't played that much rugby this season.

Good news is that both George and Hartley are back for their clubs this weekend.

For a player looking knackered he put in some shift today.

That said agree about leaving a few at home, though like you think Ford should travel. See if he can find his spark out in Aus.

We've got Ella coaching the backs this summer haven't we?
Ford needs to go on tour - give him a taste of a genuine backs coach for only the second time in his career.
So far he's had what? Callard, Cockerill, Daddy, Rival's Daddy and Eddie.

Which Tyler wrote:We've got Ella coaching the backs this summer haven't we?
Ford needs to go on tour - give him a taste of a genuine backs coach for only the second time in his career.
So far he's had what? Callard, Cockerill, Daddy, Rival's Daddy and Eddie.

Good point. I was on the fence, but I'll go with that.

Which Tyler wrote:We've got Ella coaching the backs this summer haven't we?
Ford needs to go on tour - give him a taste of a genuine backs coach for only the second time in his career.
So far he's had what? Callard, Cockerill, Daddy, Rival's Daddy and Eddie.

I think you can add Walshe to that list. He had a decent reputation until he went to the reputation graveyard in the West Country.

I agree with your point, though.

The snag with finding our best FH is that it's less about game-running ability and more about being creative alongside Care or Youngs. Ford may be a better FH than playing with either of those SHs indicates. Robson and/or Simpson make Gopperth look a good FH. If EJ has the sense to take both to Australia, Ford should be champing at the bit to play outside either. Only then will we be able to judge.

Oakboy wrote:The snag with finding our best FH is that it's less about game-running ability and more about being creative alongside Care or Youngs. Ford may be a better FH than playing with either of those SHs indicates. Robson and/or Simpson make Gopperth look a good FH. If EJ has the sense to take both to Australia, Ford should be champing at the bit to play outside either. Only then will we be able to judge.

I agree with this, with the caveat that neither Robson or Simpson may be better than the incumbents both of whom have played well domestically whilst failing to delivery for England.

Which Tyler wrote:We've got Ella coaching the backs this summer haven't we?
Ford needs to go on tour - give him a taste of a genuine backs coach for only the second time in his career.
So far he's had what? Callard, Cockerill, Daddy, Rival's Daddy and Eddie.

Good point, well made.

Puja

I'd rest none of them as that way I'll probably be in line with what happens

Also Ford's best spell of his England career was done stood next to Youngs. It clearly doesn't bother him when in form.

Peat wrote: Also Ford's best spell of his England career was done stood next to Youngs.

That's probably wise. If Ford stands any further away than a couple of metres Youngs' passing looks like Steve Harmison's first over in an away Ashes in super slow-mo.

Mellsblue wrote:

Peat wrote: Also Ford's best spell of his England career was done stood next to Youngs.

That's probably wise. If Ford stands any further away than a couple of metres Youngs' passing looks like Steve Harmison's first over in an away Ashes in super slow-mo.

Well you smashed that short one well away to the boundary

Mike Brown, in particular needs a rest. He's only 30% of the player he was needs a break. Worked wonders for Chris Ashton who is currently BT Sport favourite winger.

WiganShark wrote:Mike Brown, in particular needs a rest. He's only 30% of the player he was needs a break. Worked wonders for Chris Ashton who is currently BT Sport favourite winger.

Jesus Christ.