RugbyRebels

So, what do people should be the hopes for this game? And what to do in terms of selection?

I'm thinking that there isn't much scope for major changes and might just give the same bunch a chance to try again whilst making clear to some that they are playing for their international future. Presumably, what we saw was in no way what had been planned.

Of course, much of selection will also depend on injuries, mental as well as physical. I am also horrified at the thought of Ireland repeatedly kicking off to Dombrandt and then giving him a full working over, particularly if the game is pre watershed.

In terms of performance, there has to be some sort of response. If Ireland are hit by alot of injuries after today there is a chance but not a great one. Some sort of pride needs to be restored....

After a big home defeat like that, much will depend on the perceived player reaction in training camp, I imagine. Shrinking violets will lose out but I doubt many will react that way. SB will probably end up restricting himself to just a few changes. Dombrandt, Slade and Smith look vulnerable. Simmonds/T Willis and Marchant for the first two I'd guess. I don't want to see Farrell but I'd be surprised if he did not replace Smith for the cauldron of Dublin.

Could we even see Ford, Farrell, Lawrence? Stranger things have happened.

Cole and Walker to start.
Domrandt out, Ludlam to 8 alongside Curry and Willis. Simmonds on bench, and a quick call to see what Grewcock is doing.
As for the backs, not a clue. Though Slade must be at risk

Wonder which ones are under pressure for their international future?

Carter1989 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:25 pm Wonder which ones are under pressure for their international future?

You could ask which ones are not? Itoje, Chessum, Lawrence, Steward for certain. Willis, Genge, Sinckler, Ludlam probably not. Then who?

Genge, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Chessum, Ludlam, Willis
JVP, Smith
Manu, Lawrence/Marchant
Arundell, Steward, Watson

Walker, Vunipola, Stuart, Martin, Simmonds, Mitchell, Ford/Farrell, Marchant/Freeman.

Use Lawes injury to call up Martin. The kid hits like a train and can cover multiple positions. Move Chessum to 6 and bring in Ribbans, extra physicality up front and we can go after the Irish lineout. Go massive in midfield and see if the Irish dummy runners still fancy it when the big hits come in. As long as Lawrence is fit
Stuart being back from HIA protocols gives us another mobile tighthead.

Not the match for Smith to start - a few early rag-dollings and the mistakes and wasteful kicking will follow..So Faz will be back for this one Manu/Lawrence for me in m/field.
Dombo's played himself out of this one & CurryB deserves another start. Mitchell to start to zip it tidilly early on.
Lowe/Hanson were lethal today so Watson yes & Arundell so long as he's brought into the game.
Damage limitation 'twill be - Eng lucky Ire won't be near full strength and have an eye on the GS, so not expecting another humiliation with capital F.

Ireland are going to be denuded of a fair few front line players, so it will certainly test their depth

Galfon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:19 pm Dombo's played himself out of this one & CurryB deserves another start. Mitchell to start to zip it tidilly early on.

Mitchell looked fantastic for the first five months was on. He then butchered a four on three by attempting a huge miss pass to Arundell that was intercepted by Penaud and stood and watched Ovillion reach over the ruck to touch the ball down instead of doing his damn job and getting in there to ensure he had hands on it.

Ben Curry doesn't add enough physicality. Harsh but not sure he's going to be what we need Vs Ireland. I think he might just get smashed by the Irish backrow.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:11 pm Genge, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Chessum, Ludlam, Willis
JVP, Smith
Manu, Lawrence/Marchant
Arundell, Steward, Watson

Walker, Vunipola, Stuart, Martin, Simmonds, Mitchell, Ford/Farrell, Marchant/Freeman.

Use Lawes injury to call up Martin. The kid hits like a train and can cover multiple positions. Move Chessum to 6 and bring in Ribbans, extra physicality up front and we can go after the Irish lineout. Go massive in midfield and see if the Irish dummy runners still fancy it when the big hits come in. As long as Lawrence is fit
Stuart being back from HIA protocols gives us another mobile tighthead.

Slade, hero to less than zero

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:34 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:11 pm Genge, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Chessum, Ludlam, Willis
JVP, Smith
Manu, Lawrence/Marchant
Arundell, Steward, Watson

Walker, Vunipola, Stuart, Martin, Simmonds, Mitchell, Ford/Farrell, Marchant/Freeman.

Use Lawes injury to call up Martin. The kid hits like a train and can cover multiple positions. Move Chessum to 6 and bring in Ribbans, extra physicality up front and we can go after the Irish lineout. Go massive in midfield and see if the Irish dummy runners still fancy it when the big hits come in. As long as Lawrence is fit
Stuart being back from HIA protocols gives us another mobile tighthead.

Slade, hero to less than zero

I have no problem with players playing their way in or out of contention. Slade had a shocker of a first half.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:38 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:34 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:11 pm Genge, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Chessum, Ludlam, Willis
JVP, Smith
Manu, Lawrence/Marchant
Arundell, Steward, Watson

Walker, Vunipola, Stuart, Martin, Simmonds, Mitchell, Ford/Farrell, Marchant/Freeman.

Use Lawes injury to call up Martin. The kid hits like a train and can cover multiple positions. Move Chessum to 6 and bring in Ribbans, extra physicality up front and we can go after the Irish lineout. Go massive in midfield and see if the Irish dummy runners still fancy it when the big hits come in. As long as Lawrence is fit
Stuart being back from HIA protocols gives us another mobile tighthead.

Slade, hero to less than zero

I have no problem with players playing their way in or out of contention. Slade had a shocker of a first half.

He was the ONLY option at 13 half a game ago, I was told, cos Marchant had a shocker v Scotland

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:41 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:38 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:34 pm

Slade, hero to less than zero

I have no problem with players playing their way in or out of contention. Slade had a shocker of a first half.

He was the ONLY option at 13 half a game ago, I was told, cos Marchant had a shocker v Scotland

He played his way out. The improvements from the previous games undone with some rash reads and being easily outplayed by his opposite number.

Is Tuilagi even available next week?

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:00 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:41 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:38 pm

I have no problem with players playing their way in or out of contention. Slade had a shocker of a first half.

He was the ONLY option at 13 half a game ago, I was told, cos Marchant had a shocker v Scotland

He played his way out. The improvements from the previous games undone with some rash reads and being easily outplayed by his opposite number.

But but but we need his defensive nous, I was assured. I'm obviusly not being entirely serious, but Slade has always been prone to defensive lapses, has tackled poorly all 6N, and I'm not surprised he struggled against a better player in a team being hammered.

JVP gets another go though? I agree, but he needs to up his game, even if there were mitigating circumstances.

Chessum at 6. What the actual fuck.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:08 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:00 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:41 pm

He was the ONLY option at 13 half a game ago, I was told, cos Marchant had a shocker v Scotland

He played his way out. The improvements from the previous games undone with some rash reads and being easily outplayed by his opposite number.

But but but we need his defensive nous, I was assured. I'm obviusly not being entirely serious, but Slade has always been prone to defensive lapses, has tackled poorly all 6N, and I'm not surprised he struggled against a better player in a team being hammered.

JVP gets another go though? I agree, but he needs to up his game, even if there were mitigating circumstances.

Had he used his defensive nous then we'd maybe not have been in such a big problem as we were.

JVP played alright, like Mitchell after him he was hamstrung by the forwards getting battered.

No offence FKAS if we judge that as ‘alright ‘ then we are setting a low bar of expectation. He was poor (not alone in that), and I think he would admit that

Danno wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:11 am Chessum at 6. What the actual fuck.

Are you not on board with years of wacky, out-of-position selections in the hope of making amends for the France game?

I think Lawes played a game at 7 for Northampton recently.

Our best unit by a major distance is our 2nd row. Why the hell anyone would want to change it, I don't understand. We need to rebuild around it with Itoje as captain.

As for the back row, I have some sympathy with SB. I would not have chosen Dombrandt but he did and he backed him for a run of games. Fair enough. Now he needs to admit his mistake. I'd call up T Willis for the 8 shirt and persevere with the two flankers. If Lawes was fit he'd walk back into the 6 shirt but he's not.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:06 am

Danno wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:11 am Chessum at 6. What the actual fuck.

Are you not on board with years of wacky, out-of-position selections in the hope of making amends for the France game?

I think Lawes played a game at 7 for Northampton recently.

Our ruck speed was a major issue in France so playing locks in the backrow would not help that. The only two changes I’d make are starting Mitchell ahead of Van Portfleit and the experiment of playing Sam Simmonds at 12 (assuming Lawrence is injured). Think Dombrandt is getting harsh feedback for a collective bad performance. On Ben Curry I think he needs to add more of a point of difference and not try to do big carries e.g. if he could demonstrate his link man skills ( to be honest same message for T Curry too as Willis and Pearson have upped the competition for the 7 shirt )

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:12 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:08 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:00 pm

He played his way out. The improvements from the previous games undone with some rash reads and being easily outplayed by his opposite number.

But but but we need his defensive nous, I was assured. I'm obviusly not being entirely serious, but Slade has always been prone to defensive lapses, has tackled poorly all 6N, and I'm not surprised he struggled against a better player in a team being hammered.

JVP gets another go though? I agree, but he needs to up his game, even if there were mitigating circumstances.

Had he used his defensive nous then we'd maybe not have been in such a big problem as we were.

JVP played alright, like Mitchell after him he was hamstrung by the forwards getting battered.

As before, I’ve never been convinced he is very noisy in defence but whatever, he was as dire as almost everyone else.

JVP had mitigation, but did not play ‘alright’.

jngf wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:21 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:06 am

Danno wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:11 am Chessum at 6. What the actual fuck.

Are you not on board with years of wacky, out-of-position selections in the hope of making amends for the France game?

I think Lawes played a game at 7 for Northampton recently.

Our ruck speed was a major issue in France so playing locks in the backrow would not help that. The only two changes I’d make are starting Mitchell ahead of Van Portfleit and the experiment of playing Sam Simmonds at 12 (assuming Lawrence is injured). Think Dombrandt is getting harsh feedback for a collective bad performance. On Ben Curry I think he needs to add more of a point of difference and not try to do big carries e.g. if he could demonstrate his link man skills ( to be honest same message for T Curry too as Willis and Pearson have upped the competition for the 7 shirt )

If you really want to ship more points than v France, carry on and play Simmonds at 12!!

Ollie Lawrence was unavailable for selection after sustaining a hamstring injury in England’s game against France on Saturday. There are returns to the squad for Jonny Hill and Guy Porter and a call up for Will Collier.

FORWARDS
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 99 caps)
Will Collier (Harlequins, 2 caps)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, 4 caps)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 13 caps)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
Ben Earl (Saracens, 15 caps)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 47 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 76 caps)
Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 19 caps)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 10 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 66 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 18 caps)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 60 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 78 caps)
Jack Walker (Harlequins, 3 caps)
Jack Willis (Toulouse, 9 caps)
BACKS
Henry Arundell (London Irish, 6 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 105 caps)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
George Ford (Sale Sharks, 81 caps)
Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish, 2 caps)
Max Malins (Saracens, 18 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 14 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)
Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 55 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 21 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 21 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 50 caps)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 11 caps)
Anthony Watson (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 122 caps)