RugbyRebels

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:26 am all it takes is a belief that you can't pay your bills and auddenly credit for everyday work becomes very hard to acquire.

Puja

Beasties wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:35 am L Irish were mentioned a few months ago as poss being the next domino after Wasps and Worcs weren’t they?

Gloskarlos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:57 am Lots of rumour going round between CEO's of a 10 team league sooner rather than later. Newcastle and LI both in the rumour category I would guess.

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:03 am Ruck are saying "L.I respond to reports they want voluntary relegation" but can't find reports that L.I want relegation...

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:30 am LI academy reliably churning out players . .

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:22 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:30 am LI academy reliably churning out players . .

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:32 am

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:22 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:30 am LI academy reliably churning out players . .

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:22 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:30 am LI academy reliably churning out players . .

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:42 am

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:32 am

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:22 am

Lam's comments on the academy system - https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... nd-8294921

Didn't realise that Quin's/London based sides had so many of the best schools in their catchment compared to Bristol/Bath/Exe.

Think a draft system would be a good idea myself & am sure it could be monetised some way!

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:54 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:42 am

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:32 am

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

Yeah, the only option would be to remove the academies from the clubs completely. Having the RFU running them regionally. Or with even more upheaval, drafting later from and enhanced BUCs system.

Not sure there would be the appetite to do either though.

Fiddling with the catchment areas is probably the easiest change to make, although as mentioned for those hemmed in clubs like Bristol, even that is difficult.

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:54 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:42 am

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:32 am

The issue with that idea, is where on earth you would draft from?

It works in US sports as pro sport is fed from universities that are unaffiliated with the pro teams.

In English rugby, the league is primarily fed by the club RFU affiliated academies. There would be very little incentive for them to put resources into it if the best players produced went into a draft, rather than were retained by the club. You'd have to have the RFU taking on all the cost and running the 14 academies, which I don't think there would be an appetite for.

Lams certainly got a point about some catchment areas being juicier than others and the example of having to pay a development fee (and have it taken out of the salary cap) for prospects that may actually not be required by their parent club.

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

Yeah, the only option would be to remove the academies from the clubs completely. Having the RFU running them regionally. Or with even more upheaval, drafting later from and enhanced BUCs system.

Not sure there would be the appetite to do either though.

Fiddling with the catchment areas is probably the easiest change to make, although as mentioned for those hemmed in clubs like Bristol, even that is difficult.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:58 am Really interesting article. Bristol will always be at a disadvantage given the size of their catchment area.

This i just dont get - “If I wanted to bring a young player through, and invest 2-3 years in him. To do that I might have to pay him 20k but I have to pay Harlequins, who have done nothing at that stage - okay, he might have come through their academy - I’ve got to give them 30k; that 50k that I’ve paid goes into the salary cap. So why would I bother doing that?

If a player is deemed surplus to requirements at one club and wants to try his hand at another, then surely he should be able to do so without cost to his new club?

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:58 am

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:54 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:42 am

I suppose the answer would be to take the academies completely away from clubs, have them entirely RFU-controlled, and then draft from there? Or auction from there, if the RFU wanted to recoup the development costs?

I don't know whether that's the right answer - I know I like the current system for Leicester, but then we've got a chunk of East Anglia and the East midlands to draw from right now. It's got to be harder for Bath and Bristol who are barely 13 miles apart and are hemmed in on both sides by Glaws and Exeter.

Puja

Yeah, the only option would be to remove the academies from the clubs completely. Having the RFU running them regionally. Or with even more upheaval, drafting later from and enhanced BUCs system.

Not sure there would be the appetite to do either though.

Fiddling with the catchment areas is probably the easiest change to make, although as mentioned for those hemmed in clubs like Bristol, even that is difficult.

Lam isn’t asking for catchment areas to be changed, at least not from what I’ve read, but that if a player isn’t picked by the club whose area they live in there’s no barriers to another club offering them a contract.

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:01 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:58 am Really interesting article. Bristol will always be at a disadvantage given the size of their catchment area.

This i just dont get - “If I wanted to bring a young player through, and invest 2-3 years in him. To do that I might have to pay him 20k but I have to pay Harlequins, who have done nothing at that stage - okay, he might have come through their academy - I’ve got to give them 30k; that 50k that I’ve paid goes into the salary cap. So why would I bother doing that?

If a player is deemed surplus to requirements at one club and wants to try his hand at another, then surely he should be able to do so without cost to his new club?

Define "surplus to requirements" though. I suspect Lam isn't talking about players who have been outright released, but someone who might be second/third choice in their position in their academy year at Quins, but could be first choice at Bristol.

Puj