Update on the Rec Saga #CXXVII

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bathrugby.com/stadium-for-bath/

Bath Rugby has today confirmed the club will be revealing new designs to the public for the redevelopment of the club's current stadium at The Rec.

The stadium plans will go on show at the club's final home game v Saracens on 6 May 14:00-16:00, as well as on Wednesday 10 May at Widcombe Social Club from 11:00-19:00 and will also be available here from 6 May.

Stakeholder and public feedback obtained during previous consultations has influenced the new stadium design that the club plan to submit to B&NES Council this summer.

The previous scheme shared pre-pandemic, has evolved and the project team are looking forward to sharing the stadium’s designs and benefits.

As part of the redevelopment, the public riverside space to the West of The Rec will be widened creating a more inviting and usable space, on matchdays and non-matchdays, and the structure itself will allow for greater community use. Sustainability and environmentally friendly materials are key to the new proposals.

The proposed capacity of the stadium will increase to 18,000 with increased provision for accessibility needs, as well as providing a new permanent home for Bath Rugby Foundation.

Bath Rugby Chief Executive Tarquin McDonald said: "After decades of conversation, we are confident the plans we will submit this summer will both excite and reassure the people of Bath.
"Our club, your club, is the heart of our city and now is the time to bring a stadium that will serve world-class men's and women's rugby, and our community, all year-round."

[Puja]

I find it hard to get excited about another design, considering we've had about 3 iterations of this over the last 15 years with absolutely nothing coming from them.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

This time though, THIS TIME...



They've already lost their legal challenges at the Supreme Court level, so now it's on to the planning stage (yes, we've been here before, but always with the threat of a higher court). That we've been here before (and that the last set of plans included stuff that was always going to be shot down) means there's already been plenty of discussion, and give&take between planners and designers.

So (unless money runs out) something's going to happen, it's now "just" a matter of what, and when.

Given how long they've had to discuss things with the planners; I expect planning to take about a year; and I expect this week's design to also be shot down over something, but will be a realistic best-case proposal by the club (so no underground car-park, no bridge, Bath Stone cladding, but pushing the limits on roof heights and sight-lines etc.

I also really hope the design and limitations have been properly discussed with the likes of Historic England and World Heritage - if either of those say nay, then the designers are incompetent.

[Puja]

I mean, I'm talking like I won't be conned into getting excited about the plans again, when I absolutely will. No doubt I'm going to be suckered again. I just don't expect anything other than being edged for another 5 years.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Now that I 100% agree upon, and is why I didn't do an update when these designs were first announced, but now... it's this weekend... and despite myself, I've got excited about it - even though I'm confident that this proposal will be rejected.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bathrugby.com/stadium-for-bath/

[twitchy]

These are apparently completely unrealistic and won't happen, but they look amazing.

[Banquo]

If insta did rugby grounds

[Puja]

Yeah, those ideas are so unlikely to happen that they actually went back in time and undid some things that did. Far too far away from the compromises that have already been struck.

However, there has been some slight movement in that the development brief has been updated: https://www.bathrugby.com/media/1551467 ... ow-res.pdf . Apparently, they have fulfilled all they need to do for public consultation, so it's now between them and the planning department.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Yep, virtually no chance this would happen unless Bruce wants to bankrupt himself and they don’t fancy being in there until 2045(ish). There’s also the issue that this looks great on the drawing board/computer screen but would almost certainly look shoite when stood next to and in comparison to the original buildings.
I’d favour the clearly new with nods to the surroundings.

[Which Tyler]

Yep, virtually no chance this would happen unless Bruce wants to bankrupt himself and they don’t fancy being in there until 2045(ish). There’s also the issue that this looks great on the drawing board/computer screen but would almost certainly look shoite when stood next to and in comparison to the original buildings.
I’d favour the clearly new with nods to the surroundings.

That sort of suggestion has been made plenty of times by various fans over the last... 20-odd years
A] It would never be both affordable and able to pass planning
B] It would only actually look good if they could also accurately fake 300-odd years worth of patina on the fresh-cut stone - which... I doubt somehow.

[FKAS]

Yep, virtually no chance this would happen unless Bruce wants to bankrupt himself and they don’t fancy being in there until 2045(ish). There’s also the issue that this looks great on the drawing board/computer screen but would almost certainly look shoite when stood next to and in comparison to the original buildings.
I’d favour the clearly new with nods to the surroundings.

That sort of suggestion has been made plenty of times by various fans over the last... 20-odd years
A] It would never be both affordable and able to pass planning
B] It would only actually look good if they could also accurately fake 300-odd years worth of patina on the fresh-cut stone - which... I doubt somehow.

Or they'd have to clean all the surrounding buildings so that they look far fresher (it is doable). The astronomical cost of that much stone and the craftsmanship required to cut it would mean it would end up being just a veneer on the outside as well. Still unlikely to impress the dissenting voices even if they did the whole thing anyway.

[Mellsblue]

Yep, virtually no chance this would happen unless Bruce wants to bankrupt himself and they don’t fancy being in there until 2045(ish). There’s also the issue that this looks great on the drawing board/computer screen but would almost certainly look shoite when stood next to and in comparison to the original buildings.
I’d favour the clearly new with nods to the surroundings.

That sort of suggestion has been made plenty of times by various fans over the last... 20-odd years
A] It would never be both affordable and able to pass planning
B] It would only actually look good if they could also accurately fake 300-odd years worth of patina on the fresh-cut stone - which... I doubt somehow.

Or they'd have to clean all the surrounding buildings so that they look far fresher (it is doable). The astronomical cost of that much stone and the craftsmanship required to cut it would mean it would end up being just a veneer on the outside as well. Still unlikely to impress the dissenting voices even if they did the whole thing anyway.

Even if you cleaned the surrounding buildings, and I’m guessing they’re not left to get too dirty given the location, it’s not going to be close to matching the stone used in the new construction… which will almost certainly come from China and not the seam of stone the original buildings were constructed from. That’s before you get to the dressing which will be absolutely nowhere near.

[FKAS]

That sort of suggestion has been made plenty of times by various fans over the last... 20-odd years
A] It would never be both affordable and able to pass planning
B] It would only actually look good if they could also accurately fake 300-odd years worth of patina on the fresh-cut stone - which... I doubt somehow.

Or they'd have to clean all the surrounding buildings so that they look far fresher (it is doable). The astronomical cost of that much stone and the craftsmanship required to cut it would mean it would end up being just a veneer on the outside as well. Still unlikely to impress the dissenting voices even if they did the whole thing anyway.

Even if you cleaned the surrounding buildings, and I’m guessing they’re not left to get too dirty given the location, it’s not going to be close to matching the stone used in the new construction… which will almost certainly come from China and not the seam of stone the original buildings were constructed from. That’s before you get to the dressing which will be absolutely nowhere near.

The accumulation of dirt on buildings like that is something that's generally overlooked and is normally a significant restoration given age of the stone. Don't know how ornamental it is round there. Vienna did a big project with some of their churches a few years ago if you can find before an after pictures the difference was quite striking.

Yeah trying to match local stone would definitely be a tough and expensive ask.

[Puja]

That sort of suggestion has been made plenty of times by various fans over the last... 20-odd years
A] It would never be both affordable and able to pass planning
B] It would only actually look good if they could also accurately fake 300-odd years worth of patina on the fresh-cut stone - which... I doubt somehow.

Or they'd have to clean all the surrounding buildings so that they look far fresher (it is doable). The astronomical cost of that much stone and the craftsmanship required to cut it would mean it would end up being just a veneer on the outside as well. Still unlikely to impress the dissenting voices even if they did the whole thing anyway.

Even if you cleaned the surrounding buildings, and I’m guessing they’re not left to get too dirty given the location, it’s not going to be close to matching the stone used in the new construction… which will almost certainly come from China and not the seam of stone the original buildings were constructed from. That’s before you get to the dressing which will be absolutely nowhere near.

Bath Stone is indigenous (one mine is only a couple of miles outside of the city) and is a planning requirement for building in certain parts of the city. It has to be the correct stuff; they can't import from China. It would definitely be possible to clad the stadium with Bath Stone - it's been used for several building projects in the city across the last 20-30 years - the new Spa, the Southgate shopping centre, the Riverside development. It weathers and blends in fairly quickly and doesn't look out of place even when new.

Gods, we're starved for rugby right now. We're literally talking about rocks.

I'm going to start a thread for the Wales match.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Surely, matching the local stone in Bath would be really easy, given that Bath Stone is still mined, and used all over the place (including recently at Bath Spa).
Costly, but easy.

It's the patina that would make it stand out, and being really obvious that close to Johntsone St.
And I very much that anything has ever been about the natural patina on the Georgian buildings.


ETA: bloody pending post!
Good to hear from a local that it blends in quickly though. It's been too long since I've actually wandered around Bath

[Puja]

Good to hear from a local that it blends in quickly though. It's been too long since I've actually wandered around Bath

Left is old stuff, right was built in 2010.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Or they'd have to clean all the surrounding buildings so that they look far fresher (it is doable). The astronomical cost of that much stone and the craftsmanship required to cut it would mean it would end up being just a veneer on the outside as well. Still unlikely to impress the dissenting voices even if they did the whole thing anyway.

Even if you cleaned the surrounding buildings, and I’m guessing they’re not left to get too dirty given the location, it’s not going to be close to matching the stone used in the new construction… which will almost certainly come from China and not the seam of stone the original buildings were constructed from. That’s before you get to the dressing which will be absolutely nowhere near.

Bath Stone is indigenous (one mine is only a couple of miles outside of the city) and is a planning requirement for building in certain parts of the city. It has to be the correct stuff; they can't import from China. It would definitely be possible to clad the stadium with Bath Stone - it's been used for several building projects in the city across the last 20-30 years - the new Spa, the Southgate shopping centre, the Riverside development. It weathers and blends in fairly quickly and doesn't look out of place even when new.

Gods, we're starved for rugby right now. We're literally talking about rocks.

I'm going to start a thread for the Wales match.

Puja

That’s really interesting (not sarcasm) - I’m a Building Surveyor who specialises in historic/listed buildings: I’m currently managing projects on a Grade I, Grade II* and numerous Grade II and I have a masters in Historic Building Conservation and Adaptation (just to prove I’m not being sarcastic!).
I didn’t know about the mine and the requirement to build only using stone from it - my experience is all in Yorkshire. It must still be a fairly sizeable operation if it’s capable of supplying enough for the proposal twitchy shared. It’s not my speciality, as I deal with original/existing buildings only, but the cladding would need to be top notch for it to look anything but shoite. Bruce could just go down my ‘favourite’ route and use spray painted polystyrene to finish quoins etc as I once saw in Bratislava!

[Mellsblue]

Good to hear from a local that it blends in quickly though. It's been too long since I've actually wandered around Bath

Left is old stuff, right was built in 2010.

Puja

Good to see they take so much care with new builds, albeit those shop fronts are a bit of a mess. That said, the detailing on the proposed stadium is a different order of difficulty than in that photo.

[Puja]

Even if you cleaned the surrounding buildings, and I’m guessing they’re not left to get too dirty given the location, it’s not going to be close to matching the stone used in the new construction… which will almost certainly come from China and not the seam of stone the original buildings were constructed from. That’s before you get to the dressing which will be absolutely nowhere near.

Bath Stone is indigenous (one mine is only a couple of miles outside of the city) and is a planning requirement for building in certain parts of the city. It has to be the correct stuff; they can't import from China. It would definitely be possible to clad the stadium with Bath Stone - it's been used for several building projects in the city across the last 20-30 years - the new Spa, the Southgate shopping centre, the Riverside development. It weathers and blends in fairly quickly and doesn't look out of place even when new.

Gods, we're starved for rugby right now. We're literally talking about rocks.

I'm going to start a thread for the Wales match.

Puja

That’s really interesting (not sarcasm) - I’m a Building Surveyor who specialises in historic/listed buildings: I’m currently managing projects on a Grade I, Grade II* and numerous Grade II and I have a masters in Historic Building Conservation and Adaptation (just to prove I’m not being sarcastic!).
I didn’t know about the mine and the requirement to build only using stone from it - my experience is all in Yorkshire. It must still be a fairly sizeable operation if it’s capable of supplying enough for the proposal twitchy shared. It’s not my speciality, as I deal with original/existing buildings only, but the cladding would need to be top notch for it to look anything but shoite. Bruce could just go down my ‘favourite’ route and use spray painted polystyrene to finish quoins etc as I once saw in Bratislava!

You'd properly love Bath if that's your thing - there's been a bunch of builds recently where they've had to try and match things into existing styles. The Arc Hotel or the Bath Spa are probably the most elaborate ones.

I don't know whether this place is the only mine that it comes from, but they reckon they have 1.2 million tonnes of reserves: https://bathstone.com/ I have no idea how much would be needed to clad the outside of a stadium (definitely more your area than mine!). I think the proposal is to only do one side of it - the long side down the river - but I've long since lost track of what the latest floated proposals are. At some point in 2050 they'll start actually building it.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Bath Stone is indigenous (one mine is only a couple of miles outside of the city) and is a planning requirement for building in certain parts of the city. It has to be the correct stuff; they can't import from China. It would definitely be possible to clad the stadium with Bath Stone - it's been used for several building projects in the city across the last 20-30 years - the new Spa, the Southgate shopping centre, the Riverside development. It weathers and blends in fairly quickly and doesn't look out of place even when new.

Gods, we're starved for rugby right now. We're literally talking about rocks.

I'm going to start a thread for the Wales match.

Puja

That’s really interesting (not sarcasm) - I’m a Building Surveyor who specialises in historic/listed buildings: I’m currently managing projects on a Grade I, Grade II* and numerous Grade II and I have a masters in Historic Building Conservation and Adaptation (just to prove I’m not being sarcastic!).
I didn’t know about the mine and the requirement to build only using stone from it - my experience is all in Yorkshire. It must still be a fairly sizeable operation if it’s capable of supplying enough for the proposal twitchy shared. It’s not my speciality, as I deal with original/existing buildings only, but the cladding would need to be top notch for it to look anything but shoite. Bruce could just go down my ‘favourite’ route and use spray painted polystyrene to finish quoins etc as I once saw in Bratislava!

You'd properly love Bath if that's your thing - there's been a bunch of builds recently where they've had to try and match things into existing styles. The Arc Hotel or the Bath Spa are probably the most elaborate ones.

I don't know whether this place is the only mine that it comes from, but they reckon they have 1.2 million tonnes of reserves: https://bathstone.com/ I have no idea how much would be needed to clad the outside of a stadium (definitely more your area than mine!). I think the proposal is to only do one side of it - the long side down the river - but I've long since lost track of what the latest floated proposals are. At some point in 2050 they'll start actually building it.

Puja

It’s been on my bucket-list for years and I was hoping for a Bath relegation or a match in the PRC so I could combine with a Blues match…

1.2 million tonnes sounds an awful lot but I wouldn’t know if that’s enough as I specialise in repairs, refurbs etc of existing where the less new materials I use the better. I hate buildings that try to replicate as I think they nearly always look shoite. Not sure if I mentioned that
Anyway, no more on this as I’m sure 99% of the board think this is also shoite… even Oakboy and Banquo who I believe both helped build the Roman baths

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bathrugby.com/news/stadium- ... plication/

[Oakboy]

https://www.bathrugby.com/news/stadium- ... plication/

WT, are you happy about the latest effort? It looks reasonable to me as an ignorant outsider.

[p/d]

https://www.bathrugby.com/news/stadium- ... plication/

Looks the nuts.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bathrugby.com/news/stadium- ... plication/

WT, are you happy about the latest effort? It looks reasonable to me as an ignorant outsider.

It looks superb. What it looks like in reality (if and when it ever does) SHOULD be superb, but will probably disappoint.
It will 100% be better than what's there currently.