Team is out. There’s been some rotation, hopefully we shouldn’t need our best 15 to beat Tonga. Good to see George Horne on the bench.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:53 am
by Big D
We should be picking our best team available. They've had a couple of weeks since the SA game and if really needed, they could rest players against Romania.
We have left our best LHP, best winger (and finisher) and best 13 on the bench. Don't like it. I am guessing GG is injured rather than bombed out?
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:06 am
by Mikey Brown
I'm a bit confused about this one. I don't mind the rotation of Sutherland/Cummings. They are good enough, but we could also do with them hitting top form to strengthen the 23.
Steyn? Well Graham was 50/50 for the SA game so is his fitness in question? If so, why is he even on the bench?
On one hand Harris makes a lot of sense managing the big, physical runners Tonga have, but does that show a lack of confidence in Jones? I don't really understand the centre pecking order. Redpath keeps showing up fairly well in limited time from the bench, but never gets a start in favour of Harris.
This seemed like it might have been a useful game to involve Healy actually.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:09 am
by Big D
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:06 am
I'm a bit confused about this one. I don't mind the rotation of Sutherland/Cummings. They are good enough, but we could also do with them hitting top form to strengthen the 23.
Steyn? Well Graham was 50/50 for the SA game so is his fitness in question? If so, why is he even on the bench?
On one hand Harris makes a lot of sense managing the big, physical runners Tonga have, but does that show a lack of confidence in Jones? I don't really understand the centre pecking order. Redpath keeps showing up fairly well in limited time from the bench, but never gets a start in favour of Harris.
This seemed like it might have been a useful game to involve Healy actually.
I don't get why we would change for Tonga if concerned about physicality when SA and Ireland are more physical as a team.
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:06 am
I'm a bit confused about this one. I don't mind the rotation of Sutherland/Cummings. They are good enough, but we could also do with them hitting top form to strengthen the 23.
Steyn? Well Graham was 50/50 for the SA game so is his fitness in question? If so, why is he even on the bench?
On one hand Harris makes a lot of sense managing the big, physical runners Tonga have, but does that show a lack of confidence in Jones? I don't really understand the centre pecking order. Redpath keeps showing up fairly well in limited time from the bench, but never gets a start in favour of Harris.
This seemed like it might have been a useful game to involve Healy actually.
I don't get why we would change for Tonga if concerned about physicality when SA and Ireland are more physical as a team.
I guess just prioritising the games we think we can win without our best attacking talent on the field.
I'm not saying it's right, but Harris's selection and the backs on the bench suggest hoping to grind them down and take advantage in the last quarter?
I'm living in a perpetual state of fear over Russell catching a stray knee/elbow, though that's probably the wrong attitude.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:56 am
by Cameo
Didn't like my thread eh?
I'm a bit surprised by that team, unless there are injuries. Given the schedule, and the fact that bonus points and points difference might well end up being crucial, I though we would go first choice, at least in the backline (possibly even for Romania).
Of course, Townsend may have more faith in Harris than we do and not consider him to be an absolute handbrake in attack.
Relaxed about the forwards.
To be honest, most nervous about the Ireland game. If Ireland win that, I think I'll feel like our tournament is basically over having lost one game against the World Champs.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:57 am
by Cameo
On a more positive (though sad) note - if we sneak through, Dupont's injury makes France a lot more beatable.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:34 am
by BaldiePete
Cameo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:56 am
Didn't like my thread eh?
Woops, sorry, not paying attention and didn’t see it.
Agree about the forwards, they’ll be fine and I expect the backs will as well. Harris is no Huw Jones but he isn’t as bad as can sometimes be made out.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:04 am
by Jocky
Bench to make good impact against a tiring Tonga?
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:14 am
by switchskier
In the unlikely event that qualification comes down to bonus points or points differential then I'm going to get retrospectively mad at this team selection.
I too love in fear of what happened to Dupont happening to Russell.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:50 pm
by Jocky
Can't see us putting a score like Ireland did against Tonga. Tonga will a lot better prepared this weekend. Huwipulotu haven't been as sharp/cohesive the last few games - is this a case of trying to get wide too quickly and not utilising them enough? Harris selection won't matter in attack if he is rarely going to touch the ball. Steyn deserves a chance, but Darcy needs gametime. Agree that Steyn could be in as a more physical option.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:43 pm
by Catacol
Unlike some, I like the thinking here. Starting spots for the top benchers (Steyn, Harris, Sutherland, Cummings), game time for those who need to recover some dented post-Boks confidence (half backs) and otherwise first choice players to cement the win - hopefully. This was not the game to go with Healy or Horne or Redpath to start. Tonga are too dangerous. At the same time we need the better subs to be sharp for Ireland. Expect all the "lesser" players to do the job against Romania once this strong squad has done its job. And let's hope Darcy has been practicing his catch and pass.....!
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:54 pm
by General Zod
Catacol wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:43 pm
Unlike some, I like the thinking here. Starting spots for the top benchers (Steyn, Harris, Sutherland, Cummings), game time for those who need to recover some dented post-Boks confidence (half backs) and otherwise first choice players to cement the win - hopefully. This was not the game to go with Healy or Horne or Redpath to start. Tonga are too dangerous. At the same time we need the better subs to be sharp for Ireland. Expect all the "lesser" players to do the job against Romania once this strong squad has done its job. And let's hope Darcy has been practicing his catch and pass.....!
Agree with this. I would also say that Kinghorn didn’t start well v boks, but I think dropping him would be a bit harsh as he recovered fairly well. They had to do something in the line-out. Am guessing it was Gilchrist who called the first one over the back (although he was presumably not solely to blame for the rest of it).
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:30 pm
by Big D
Catacol wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:43 pm
Unlike some, I like the thinking here. Starting spots for the top benchers (Steyn, Harris, Sutherland, Cummings), game time for those who need to recover some dented post-Boks confidence (half backs) and otherwise first choice players to cement the win - hopefully. This was not the game to go with Healy or Horne or Redpath to start. Tonga are too dangerous. At the same time we need the better subs to be sharp for Ireland. Expect all the "lesser" players to do the job against Romania once this strong squad has done its job. And let's hope Darcy has been practicing his catch and pass.....!
I think most complaints are about not going full noise rather than more rotation. The attacking patterns were non existent v the Boks. This would have been a good chance for Russell and Huwipulotu to get some the patterns flowing again.
We should beat Tonga, but dropping our best players in their position to the bench is an unnecessary step when this is a must win for so many reasons. The aim should be get the job done and get Russell off 50-60min in, not try and contain Tonga (which can be the only reason Harris is in) and let loose in the last 20.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:32 pm
by BaldiePete
Catacol wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:43 pm
Unlike some, I like the thinking here. Starting spots for the top benchers (Steyn, Harris, Sutherland, Cummings), game time for those who need to recover some dented post-Boks confidence (half backs) and otherwise first choice players to cement the win - hopefully. This was not the game to go with Healy or Horne or Redpath to start. Tonga are too dangerous. At the same time we need the better subs to be sharp for Ireland. Expect all the "lesser" players to do the job against Romania once this strong squad has done its job. And let's hope Darcy has been practicing his catch and pass.....!
Good thinking, that makes sense, although I suspect Cummings may be sneaking ahead of Gilchrist as a starter for the Ireland game. Who calls the lineout for Glasgow, is it Cummings? Gilchrist calls the lineouts when he plays so we need an experienced lineout caller.
If we can be well ahead at half-time I’d like to see Finn taken off. Kinghorn can move up to 10 with Jones coming on at 15.
I can see a backline of Price or Horne, Healy, Steyn, Redpath, Harris, Graham & Smith for Romania with Kinghorn on the bench for the Romania match.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:33 pm
by Big D
In many ways this might be the biggest game of Townsends tenure. Quickly followed by the Ireland game which will be.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:34 pm
by Big D
BaldiePete wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:32 pm
I can see a backline of Price or Horne, Healy, Steyn, Redpath, Harris, Graham & Smith for Romania with Kinghorn on the bench for the Romania match.
Depending on the weekend, it might need to be full noise all the way.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:41 pm
by BaldiePete
Big D wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:33 pm
In many ways this might be the biggest game of Townsends tenure. Quickly followed by the Ireland game which will be.
Definitely. Our priorities for Tonga must be :
1. Win
2. Bonus point
3. Points difference.
Looking at the bench I’d say Townsend is looking to secure 1 and maybe 2 with the starters and really going for 3 with the replacements.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:49 pm
by Mikey Brown
Big D wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:33 pm
In many ways this might be the biggest game of Townsends tenure. Quickly followed by the Ireland game which will be.
Haha. What? No it isn’t.
I mean obviously if we lose it will be shit, but getting thumped last week doesn’t change it being the game the game that defines this generation of players, though you could equally say that for Ireland or either crunch game last time out.
Big D wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:33 pm
In many ways this might be the biggest game of Townsends tenure. Quickly followed by the Ireland game which will be.
Haha. What? No it isn’t.
I mean obviously if we lose it will be shit, but getting thumped last week doesn’t change it being the game the game that defines this generation of players, though you could equally say that for Ireland or either crunch game last time out.
So an embarrassing world cup loss leading to the team ranked 5th going in to have to qualify for 2027 on top of a terrible 2019 World Cup wouldn't leave a significant black mark on the coaches and these players and the game that history will remember? It's a game that they simply can't (and shouldn't) lose. So from the POV of what happens if they don't win, it doesn't bear thinking about.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:30 pm
by Mikey Brown
I guess. I suppose I wouldn’t judge the biggest game by its potential to be embarrassing, more the opportunity it represents.
Tonga represents an opportunity for failure in a tournament where we’ve already stumbled at the first hurdle. A win vs SA would have been enormous.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:18 am
by switchskier
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:30 pm
I guess. I suppose I wouldn’t judge the biggest game by its potential to be embarrassing, more the opportunity it represents.
Tonga represents an opportunity for failure in a tournament where we’ve already stumbled at the first hurdle. A win vs SA would have been enormous.
SA is done - only way is to move on. A win over Ireland would be equally massive but we at least know them better.
But I'm still having nightmares about this (just to make you all happy):
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:25 am
by Cameo
Jocky wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:04 am
Bench to make good impact against a tiring Tonga?
Yeah, having heard Townsend, I wonder if that is a big factor. If we have a lead, bringing on Horne, Jones and Graham could be big.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:38 pm
by Donny osmond
before half time is good, just need to seal the win.
Russell needs to pick and choose his wife miss passes better, the one for Steyns try was great, the others not so much.
DVDM is starting to annoy me, he seems to think he's bigger and stronger than anyone else. Sure, his size should be an asset but only if he uses it properly and he just isn't.
Otherwise pretty decent.
Re: Game 2 : Scotland v Tonga
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:49 pm
by Cameo
Can't complain with a bonus point at half time, amd our attack has looked decent, but think we have been a little sloppy. Their defense is porous, but we have let them off the hook with some dropped balls and sloppy turnovers.
I think it should be a red card, but won't complain if it's not.
