SF v SA

[Oakboy]

What team are we expecting? It's not what I'd pick, but something like:


Marler, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Lawes, Vunipola, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Manu, Lawrence
Daly, Steward, Marchant

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, May.


Combatting SA's physicality might influence things?

[Banquo]

What team are we expecting? It's not what I'd pick, but something like:


Marler, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Lawes, Vunipola, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Manu, Lawrence
Daly, Steward, Marchant

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, May.


Combatting SA's physicality might influence things?

Doesn't matter what side you put out from our squad, you aren't going to get close to their physicality both starters and bench- incidentally, their subs yesterday were genius that looked a bit mad at the time (taking Kolisi off was especially ballsy).

We have to figure out a way to win without running into them. It will probably look like a sh*t load of kicking sadly (hello Cheslin ). I fear for our scrum, and we definitely need three lineout options (not using Chessum doesn't equal don't need three options- someone from Fiji had to be aware of him being an option). I'd think we'd need to up the mobility in the starting lineup, not downgrade it. I'd definitely leave Manu and Marchant as the centres- Manu's carrying was very good, and Marchant is growing, esp in defence (Manu needs to calm down in defence though); back 3 is a mess, but Steward needs to come back.

[FKAS]

Not sure I'd drop Chessum. Thought he was one of our most combative forwards yesterday. I'd agree the backrow needs some additional muscle adding to it but I'm unconvinced it's BillyV, not with how rapid South Africa played Vs France (damn, that game was awesome). I thought Marler was off the pace when he came on as well.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Martin, Itoje
Chessum, Earl, Lawes
Mitchell, Ford (but Silver Balls will pick Farrell)
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Marler, Cole, Ribbans, Curry, BillyV, Care, Lawrence.

It's a shame Will Stuart has fallen away so much over the summer his ability in the loose would be good for this game but you couldn't trust him at the scrum.

[Oakboy]

What team are we expecting? It's not what I'd pick, but something like:


Marler, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Lawes, Vunipola, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Manu, Lawrence
Daly, Steward, Marchant

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, May.


Combatting SA's physicality might influence things?

Doesn't matter what side you put out from our squad, you aren't going to get close to their physicality both starters and bench- incidentally, their subs yesterday were genius that looked a bit mad at the time (taking Kolisi off was especially ballsy).

We have to figure out a way to win without running into them. It will probably look like a sh*t load of kicking sadly (hello Cheslin ). I fear for our scrum, and we definitely need three lineout options (not using Chessum doesn't equal don't need three options- someone from Fiji had to be aware of him being an option). I'd think we'd need to up the mobility in the starting lineup, not downgrade it.

Would you start Smith at 15 again, then?

[Banquo]

Not sure I'd drop Chessum. Thought he was one of our most combative forwards yesterday. I'd agree the backrow needs some additional muscle adding to it but I'm unconvinced it's BillyV, not with how rapid South Africa played Vs France (damn, that game was awesome). I thought Marler was off the pace when he came on as well.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Martin, Itoje
Chessum, Earl, Lawes
Mitchell, Ford (but Silver Balls will pick Farrell)
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Marler, Cole, Ribbans, Curry, BillyV, Care, Lawrence.

It's a shame Will Stuart has fallen away so much over the summer his ability in the loose would be good for this game but you couldn't trust him at the scrum.

That back row would get annhilated imo. But then I think that may happen irrespective of who we have at the moment.

[Banquo]

What team are we expecting? It's not what I'd pick, but something like:


Marler, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Lawes, Vunipola, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Manu, Lawrence
Daly, Steward, Marchant

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, May.


Combatting SA's physicality might influence things?

Doesn't matter what side you put out from our squad, you aren't going to get close to their physicality both starters and bench- incidentally, their subs yesterday were genius that looked a bit mad at the time (taking Kolisi off was especially ballsy).

We have to figure out a way to win without running into them. It will probably look like a sh*t load of kicking sadly (hello Cheslin ). I fear for our scrum, and we definitely need three lineout options (not using Chessum doesn't equal don't need three options- someone from Fiji had to be aware of him being an option). I'd think we'd need to up the mobility in the starting lineup, not downgrade it.

Would you start Smith at 15 again, then?

Not in a million years (see edit) generally, but esp v SA.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I kind of have the opinion that we lose regardless, so may as well chance our arm. We're going to get beaten up and battered in the scrum, but we need mobility. For that you have to have Sink and Stuart rather than Cole. I don't think Billy gives us anything, so stick to the same backrow, for the extra lineout option of Lawes and get Curry and Earl to run themselves to a standstill. Ludlam or Underhill on the bench.

I would keep Smith at 15. Frankly fuck it, why not. We're 99% likely to lose anyway, so let's at least have a crack at them! I'd also pick Arundell, which Sonny Bono won't, cause our wings are a bit shit and the experience of playing SA.

He won't drop Farrell, so no point even discussing that.

We will not win from kicking 3's. They will score. We have to. Lets tear into them, try and get some points and defend like fuck!

And it's my birthday on Saturday, so let's at least try some entertaining rugby and go home with the hint of a tiny smile on our faces. Kick and clap gets us royally fucked! So does everything else probably, but at least we'd be having a go!

[Mikey Brown]

I kind of have the opinion that we lose regardless, so may as well chance our arm. We're going to get beaten up and battered in the scrum, but we need mobility. For that you have to have Sink and Stuart rather than Cole. I don't think Billy gives us anything, so stick to the same backrow, for the extra lineout option of Lawes and get Curry and Earl to run themselves to a standstill. Ludlam or Underhill on the bench.

I would keep Smith at 15. Frankly fuck it, why not. We're 99% likely to lose anyway, so let's at least have a crack at them! I'd also pick Arundell, which Sonny Bono won't, cause our wings are a bit shit and the experience of playing SA.

He won't drop Farrell, so no point even discussing that.

We will not win from kicking 3's. They will score. We have to. Lets tear into them, try and get some points and defend like fuck!

And it's my birthday on Saturday, so let's at least try some entertaining rugby and go home with the hint of a tiny smile on our faces. Kick and clap gets us royally fucked! So does everything else probably, but at least we'd be having a go!

Yeah it’s a weird one. Smith got absolutely battered at fullback, but not shown up in the ways I expected. SA will bomb the shit out of him though. At the same time he’s one of the only players I can imagine managing to get over the top of their defence with a chip or something.

We managed to get him the ball a good few times, but it always seemed to be in complete isolation. We’d just stand back and hope he’d beat 3 defenders before realising we had nobody in support.

Obviously Farrell will continue at 10 with Ford having taken up his new role of non-playing reserve. I imagine Steward will come back in so we might actually see Ford dropped completely? I’m sure Argentina will be baffled to see him out of the 23 entirely when we face them in the final.

Lawes will play, so any combo of Earl, Curry, Ludlam at 7, 8, 20. I don’t really care.

I’m not sure what you do with the props, frankly. I’d take a punt on this being Sinkler’s chance at redemption for 2019 and that firing him up enough to get some sort of performance.

[Stom]

We're getting done, but I think...

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Chessum
Lawes, Curry, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Daly, Manu, Marchant, May
Steward

Dan, Marler, Cole, Martin, Billy, Care, Ford, Laurence

That's what I'm expecting.

I think it will be ugly rugby. We're not going to learn from others. We'll kick the leather off the ball, look for turnovers, and be absolutely done because our wide defence is so abysmal.

What I would do is different...but kinda hard to work out given the current squad. Our coaches are probably correct that we can't run phase play against this Bok team, as they'll just turn us over time and again. So the gameplan has to involve a lot of kicking no matter what. We can't have Smith in the backline, unfortunately, but he could be an interesting option off the bench if we've kept it close.

My personal team would be more like:

Marler, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Chessum
Lawes, Curry, Earl
Mitchell, Ford
Daly, Manu Marchant, May
Steward

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, Laurence.

Damn, that's depressing.

You can't change hardly anything. There's just no-one worth picking in the squad who actually fits into the XXIII. You pick Arundell, then you need to pick Farrell to cover the centres. Which he doesn't really cover. So, yeah, I would have two bloody changes, and that's it. Depressing.

[Banquo]

I kind of have the opinion that we lose regardless, so may as well chance our arm. We're going to get beaten up and battered in the scrum, but we need mobility. For that you have to have Sink and Stuart rather than Cole. I don't think Billy gives us anything, so stick to the same backrow, for the extra lineout option of Lawes and get Curry and Earl to run themselves to a standstill. Ludlam or Underhill on the bench.

I would keep Smith at 15. Frankly fuck it, why not. We're 99% likely to lose anyway, so let's at least have a crack at them! I'd also pick Arundell, which Sonny Bono won't, cause our wings are a bit shit and the experience of playing SA.

He won't drop Farrell, so no point even discussing that.

We will not win from kicking 3's. They will score. We have to. Lets tear into them, try and get some points and defend like fuck!

And it's my birthday on Saturday, so let's at least try some entertaining rugby and go home with the hint of a tiny smile on our faces. Kick and clap gets us royally fucked! So does everything else probably, but at least we'd be having a go!

I agree on mobility and giving it a lash. I'd definitely give Arundell a go....and if we are giving it a proper lash, start him at 15.

[Banquo]

We're getting done, but I think...

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Chessum
Lawes, Curry, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Daly, Manu, Marchant, May
Steward

Dan, Marler, Cole, Martin, Billy, Care, Ford, Laurence

That's what I'm expecting.

I think it will be ugly rugby. We're not going to learn from others. We'll kick the leather off the ball, look for turnovers, and be absolutely done because our wide defence is so abysmal.

What I would do is different...but kinda hard to work out given the current squad. Our coaches are probably correct that we can't run phase play against this Bok team, as they'll just turn us over time and again. So the gameplan has to involve a lot of kicking no matter what. We can't have Smith in the backline, unfortunately, but he could be an interesting option off the bench if we've kept it close.

My personal team would be more like:

Marler, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Chessum
Lawes, Curry, Earl
Mitchell, Ford
Daly, Manu Marchant, May
Steward

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, Laurence.

Damn, that's depressing.

You can't change hardly anything. There's just no-one worth picking in the squad who actually fits into the XXIII. You pick Arundell, then you need to pick Farrell to cover the centres. Which he doesn't really cover. So, yeah, I would have two bloody changes, and that's it. Depressing.

Lol- I love the way you started all positive then realised it wasn't worth it!

[Stom]

I kind of have the opinion that we lose regardless, so may as well chance our arm. We're going to get beaten up and battered in the scrum, but we need mobility. For that you have to have Sink and Stuart rather than Cole. I don't think Billy gives us anything, so stick to the same backrow, for the extra lineout option of Lawes and get Curry and Earl to run themselves to a standstill. Ludlam or Underhill on the bench.

I would keep Smith at 15. Frankly fuck it, why not. We're 99% likely to lose anyway, so let's at least have a crack at them! I'd also pick Arundell, which Sonny Bono won't, cause our wings are a bit shit and the experience of playing SA.

He won't drop Farrell, so no point even discussing that.

We will not win from kicking 3's. They will score. We have to. Lets tear into them, try and get some points and defend like fuck!

And it's my birthday on Saturday, so let's at least try some entertaining rugby and go home with the hint of a tiny smile on our faces. Kick and clap gets us royally fucked! So does everything else probably, but at least we'd be having a go!

Strangely, this is the one game where that's probably the least bad option...

Avoid their defence completely.

We're going on a Bok hunt, we're going to catch a big one, we're not scared.
Oh oh, a world class defence.
We can't go through it.
We can't go round it.
We have to go over it.
Kick, chase, kick, chase, kick chase.

[p/d]

Not sure I'd drop Chessum. Thought he was one of our most combative forwards yesterday. I'd agree the backrow needs some additional muscle adding to it but I'm unconvinced it's BillyV, not with how rapid South Africa played Vs France (damn, that game was awesome). I thought Marler was off the pace when he came on as well.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Martin, Itoje
Chessum, Earl, Lawes
Mitchell, Ford (but Silver Balls will pick Farrell)
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Marler, Cole, Ribbans, Curry, BillyV, Care, Lawrence.

Seriously, I like the Leicester players but why would you shoe horn Martin in by shifting Chessum to the back row. Better off putting Chessum on the wing if you want them both to start.

Earls and Lawes were really good against Fiji, but SA will be a completely different bag. We need to up our game again in the breakdown department and I would say, sod it, and stick with the same 3 (though massively tempted to start with Ludlum - sorry Ben - at 8) but drop out BV for Underhill

As for the backs Steward will be back and Smith will be given a different role.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I kind of have the opinion that we lose regardless, so may as well chance our arm. We're going to get beaten up and battered in the scrum, but we need mobility. For that you have to have Sink and Stuart rather than Cole. I don't think Billy gives us anything, so stick to the same backrow, for the extra lineout option of Lawes and get Curry and Earl to run themselves to a standstill. Ludlam or Underhill on the bench.

I would keep Smith at 15. Frankly fuck it, why not. We're 99% likely to lose anyway, so let's at least have a crack at them! I'd also pick Arundell, which Sonny Bono won't, cause our wings are a bit shit and the experience of playing SA.

He won't drop Farrell, so no point even discussing that.

We will not win from kicking 3's. They will score. We have to. Lets tear into them, try and get some points and defend like fuck!

And it's my birthday on Saturday, so let's at least try some entertaining rugby and go home with the hint of a tiny smile on our faces. Kick and clap gets us royally fucked! So does everything else probably, but at least we'd be having a go!

Strangely, this is the one game where that's probably the least bad option...

Avoid their defence completely.

We're going on a Bok hunt, we're going to catch a big one, we're not scared.
Oh oh, a world class defence.
We can't go through it.
We can't go round it.
We have to go over it.
Kick, chase, kick, chase, kick chase.

Only thing is they're better at it than we are and can go through us or around us. If they go multi-phase we open up like the it's fucking Moses!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Not sure I'd drop Chessum. Thought he was one of our most combative forwards yesterday. I'd agree the backrow needs some additional muscle adding to it but I'm unconvinced it's BillyV, not with how rapid South Africa played Vs France (damn, that game was awesome). I thought Marler was off the pace when he came on as well.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Martin, Itoje
Chessum, Earl, Lawes
Mitchell, Ford (but Silver Balls will pick Farrell)
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Marler, Cole, Ribbans, Curry, BillyV, Care, Lawrence.

Seriously, I like the Leicester players but why would you shoe horn Martin in by shifting Chessum to the back row. Better off putting Chessum on the wing if you want them both to start.

Earls and Lawes were really good against Fiji, but SA will be a completely different bag. We need to up our game again in the breakdown department and I would say, sod it, and stick with the same 3 (though massively tempted to start with Ludlum - sorry Ben - at 8) but drop out BV for Underhill

As for the backs Steward will be back and Smith will be given a different role.

Waterboy probably

[p/d]

SF. I just got it.

[Oakboy]

I'd definitely want Lawrence starting. He is a useful mix of physicality, pace and trickery. I'd play him at 12 and omit Tuilagi but SB won't. The best we can hope for is Lawrence at 13 with Marchant (undroppable) on the wing. I think Daly offers more than May for the other wing shirt. Risking Arundel at FB sounds like fun but I'd be surprised if Steward does not return.

One concern is matching their second row. I especially don't like not feeling comfortable with kicking to touch. Somehow, we have to compete with their lineout. That means Itoje and Lawes (at 6) but whoever partners Itoje out of Chessum, Ribbans and Martin has to offer something i.e. be worthy of calling it to them on our throw and offering competition on theirs.

[Banquo]

I'd definitely want Lawrence starting. He is a useful mix of physicality, pace and trickery. I'd play him at 12 and omit Tuilagi but SB won't. The best we can hope for is Lawrence at 13 with Marchant (undroppable) on the wing. I think Daly offers more than May for the other wing shirt. Risking Arundel at FB sounds like fun but I'd be surprised if Steward does not return.

One concern is matching their second row. I especially don't like not feeling comfortable with kicking to touch. Somehow, we have to compete with their lineout. That means Itoje and Lawes (at 6) but whoever partners Itoje out of Chessum, Ribbans and Martin has to offer something i.e. be worthy of calling it to them on our throw and offering competition on theirs.

Not sure why you are so down on Manu, he was terrific with the ball v Fiji (his defence patchy, tis true), and at this point he's still better than Lawrence at 12. Marchant has to stay at 13, he's wasted in defence on the wing.

You've gone a leap too far with Chessum not being thrown to- whatever we think re Shocked Blimeyinthesemi he knows his lineout.

[p/d]

I'd definitely want Lawrence starting. He is a useful mix of physicality, pace and trickery. I'd play him at 12 and omit Tuilagi but SB won't. The best we can hope for is Lawrence at 13 with Marchant (undroppable) on the wing. I think Daly offers more than May for the other wing shirt. Risking Arundel at FB sounds like fun but I'd be surprised if Steward does not return.

One concern is matching their second row. I especially don't like not feeling comfortable with kicking to touch. Somehow, we have to compete with their lineout. That means Itoje and Lawes (at 6) but whoever partners Itoje out of Chessum, Ribbans and Martin has to offer something i.e. be worthy of calling it to them on our throw and offering competition on theirs.

Not sure why you are so down on Manu, he was terrific with the ball v Fiji (his defence patchy, tis true), and at this point he's still better than Lawrence at 12. Marchant has to stay at 13, he's wasted in defence on the wing.

You've gone a leap too far with Chessum not being thrown to- whatever we think re Shocked Blimeyinthesemi he knows his lineout.

Yep. Probably can't poach an egg but he does nose his line out. I thought ours was excellent yesterday, and one has to assume Chessum's role in that was an important one.

Still, 3 tries to our 2 just ain't good enough. No tinkering with the midfield will fix that................ apart from Dan starting at 12 (I have kept Freddie on the back burner until next 6n)

[jngf]

It’s harder to call than the form book would suggest - England have been a bit of bogey side for the Saffas but I can’t see our tight five matching the physicality of that of the boks. The lack of any power carriers Manu aside is a real challenge too.

[SixAndAHalf]

Being realistic, I would go:

Genge, George, Cole
Chessum, Itoje
Lawes, Earl (8), Curry

Mitchell, Farrell (I would have Ford)
Manu, Marchant
Arundell, Steward (15), Smith

Marler, Dan, Sinckler, Martin, Ludlam, Underhill, Care, Lawrence

Main rejig is the back three which has been a mess all tournament - I see Arundell and Smith doing everything May and Daly do respectively, just better. Steward comes in to give us aerial dominance. However Arundell is on the naughty step for questioning King Faz.

No point having Ford on the bench if you are going to keep Farrell on unless he is seriously injured - and in that eventuality you have Smith who can step in at 10.

The 6/2 split means that you can replace 3 out of Chessum / Lawes / Curry / Earl so they can empty their tanks which they will need to come anywhere near to matching South Africa. We also need to use Dan in this game. Expect our scrum could be a major issue but there aren't many options so would keep Sinckler in reserve to balance the mobility when Genge is replaced but be ready to make a proactive change if Cole is hemorrhaging pens early on.

[Banquo]

Being realistic, I would go:

Genge, George, Cole
Chessum, Itoje
Lawes, Earl (8), Curry

Mitchell, Farrell (I would have Ford)
Manu, Marchant
Arundell, Steward (15), Smith

Marler, Dan, Sinckler, Martin, Ludlam, Underhill, Care, Lawrence

Main rejig is the back three which has been a mess all tournament - I see Arundell and Smith doing everything May and Daly do respectively, just better. Steward comes in to give us aerial dominance. However Arundell is on the naughty step for questioning King Faz.

No point having Ford on the bench if you are going to keep Farrell on unless he is seriously injured - and in that eventuality you have Smith who can step in at 10.

The 6/2 split means that you can replace 3 out of Chessum / Lawes / Curry / Earl so they can empty their tanks which they will need to come anywhere near to matching South Africa. We also need to use Dan in this game. Expect our scrum could be a major issue but there aren't many options so would keep Sinckler in reserve to balance the mobility when Genge is replaced but be ready to make a proactive change if Cole is hemorrhaging pens early on.

So you are sticking Smith on the wing? Like starting him at 15 with very limited experience there wasn't enough, you would now put in a position I don't think he's ever played before against two excellent wings? I thought Daly was ok actually.

[Oakboy]

I'd definitely want Lawrence starting. He is a useful mix of physicality, pace and trickery. I'd play him at 12 and omit Tuilagi but SB won't. The best we can hope for is Lawrence at 13 with Marchant (undroppable) on the wing. I think Daly offers more than May for the other wing shirt. Risking Arundel at FB sounds like fun but I'd be surprised if Steward does not return.

One concern is matching their second row. I especially don't like not feeling comfortable with kicking to touch. Somehow, we have to compete with their lineout. That means Itoje and Lawes (at 6) but whoever partners Itoje out of Chessum, Ribbans and Martin has to offer something i.e. be worthy of calling it to them on our throw and offering competition on theirs.

Not sure why you are so down on Manu, he was terrific with the ball v Fiji (his defence patchy, tis true), and at this point he's still better than Lawrence at 12. Marchant has to stay at 13, he's wasted in defence on the wing.

You've gone a leap too far with Chessum not being thrown to- whatever we think re Shocked Blimeyinthesemi he knows his lineout.

How often?

[p/d]

I'd definitely want Lawrence starting. He is a useful mix of physicality, pace and trickery. I'd play him at 12 and omit Tuilagi but SB won't. The best we can hope for is Lawrence at 13 with Marchant (undroppable) on the wing. I think Daly offers more than May for the other wing shirt. Risking Arundel at FB sounds like fun but I'd be surprised if Steward does not return.

One concern is matching their second row. I especially don't like not feeling comfortable with kicking to touch. Somehow, we have to compete with their lineout. That means Itoje and Lawes (at 6) but whoever partners Itoje out of Chessum, Ribbans and Martin has to offer something i.e. be worthy of calling it to them on our throw and offering competition on theirs.

Not sure why you are so down on Manu, he was terrific with the ball v Fiji (his defence patchy, tis true), and at this point he's still better than Lawrence at 12. Marchant has to stay at 13, he's wasted in defence on the wing.

You've gone a leap too far with Chessum not being thrown to- whatever we think re Shocked Blimeyinthesemi he knows his lineout.

How often?

Just be thankful for the once.

[Mr Mwenda]

While it never seems to come off, this is the sort of game where Daly's long kicking could be handy. Get the boks thinking about conceding penalties further out...