RugbyRebels

Playing Portugal on 25th Feb at Welford Road


https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... ruary-2024

Excellent. I'm looking forward to typing out at least a dozen potential 23s for this game.

Great idea from pretty much every angle you look at it.

Uncommonly good sense. I'm confused and alarmed by it.

The press release is a bit contradictory - opens by saying that it's about "game time for players transitioning from the pathway at U20 level to the senior team" and then goes on to say "set to take place on the weekend of round three in the Guinness Six Nations, giving those in the senior men’s wider squad valuable minutes outside of the tournament to maintain fitness throughout the campaign." Wonder whether it's going to be an U23s side or whether it's going to be used to remind Sunny Beachside of Jack Walker's existence.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:46 pm Excellent. I'm looking forward to typing out at least a dozen potential 23s for this game.

Same! Hopefully it won't be an isolated event - you would've thought Spain would also be keen for this kind of fixture.

Puja

Maybe we could make it a regular thing - get together with Ireland and restart the 6NA; but every country who doesn't want to put forward an A-team, we invite someone from the ERC.

Makes a lot of sense especially with the Prem paused. It's a capturing opportunity as well if we want to think tactically.

Big thumbs up from me. Good for our young/fringe players and a great chance for Portugal to gain invaluable experience.

Would be good if they could tour round the Prem stadia whenever there is an England match on. It might help fill depleted club coffers.

Would that then tie any uncapped players to England, or would it be like an uncapped XV game?

It’ll be interesting to see who the coaches are.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:02 pm It’ll be interesting to see who the coaches are.

I've heard they're bringing back Eddie Jones for it

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:50 pm Would that then tie any uncapped players to England, or would it be like an uncapped XV game?

It will do, as it's our "next senior representative team" against another nation's senior representative team. While the eligibility rules have been an utter mess in the past, the IRB have done a reasonable amount to clean them up and this is a fairly straightforward one.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:02 pm It’ll be interesting to see who the coaches are.

I'd assume they'd invite some assistant EQ coaches from around the Prem to come and have a crack. I doubt any DORs or HCs will step forward but with no clashing Prem games an interesting selection should be available.

Lee Blackett and Dave Walder are currently assistant coaches with priors as head coach at Prem clubs. Blackett is 40 and Walder 45 so still youngish coaches.

With it being a chance for the next generation they might get the under 20 coaches to lead it.

I mean we'd all prefer Sam Vesty as head/attack coach with Rob Hunter as forwards coach and Adam Powell looking after the defence but probably unlikely.

Ah go on then …

Subject to form etc. I'd go for:

1. F. Baxter
2. D. Frost
3. E. Painter
4. A. Coles
5. H. Tizard
6. J. Kenningham
7. B. Curry (c)
8. Barbeary
9. G. Warr
10. F. Smith
11. T. Roebuck
12. L. Northmore
13. W. Joseph
14. L. Lynagh
15. J. Hodge

16. S. Riley
17. M. Iyogun
18. J. Harper
19. R. Tuima
20. F. Harding / G. Fisilau
21. W. Porter
22. O. Bailey
23. J. Carpenter

Other possibles - Brantingham, Haffar, Langdon, Blake, Street, Chessum, Ilione, Reid, Cunningham-South, Clement, Shillcock, Ojomoh, Hartley, Dingwall, Reed, Radwan, Ibitoye, Wyatt

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:36 am Other possibles - Brantingham, Haffar, Langdon, Blake, Street, Chessum, Ilione, Reid, Cunningham-South, Clement, Shillcock, Ojomoh, Hartley, Dingwall, Reed, Radwan, Ibitoye, Wyatt

Chessum, MKII, could be the litmus test for our development pathway. The raw material is definitely there.

Shillcock has been impressive for Leicester in the few games that I’ve seen and maybe deserves consideration.

Pearson, S Atkinson, possibly Warr would be in my A team

Gloskarlos wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:53 am Pearson, S Atkinson, possibly Warr would be in my A team

I'd prefer these two in the first team

Oh go on then

Brantingham
Frost
Painter
Munga
Clark
Cunningham-South
Pepper
Fisilau
Warr
Smith F
Roebuck
Dingwall (C)
Ojomoh
Wyatt
Carpenter

Iyogun
Thacker
Harper
Chessum
Ilione
MacParland
Bailey
Redshaw

It'll be interesting to see how this works while going on at the same time as the 6 nations.

Arguably you'd pick the fringe-but-not-quite-making-the-23 players like Pearson, Atkinson, Murley etc. in an A side if this game happened in isolation, but players who make the full 6 nations squad will presumably miss out even if they're not needed on the weekends.

I'm worried we'll see basically the same squad we have now (minus Lawes, Youngs, May) for the 6 nations, with a bunch of promising 22 year olds playing Portugal, and potentially still be left wondering if guys in the middle like Willis are up to it.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:05 am It'll be interesting to see how this works while going on at the same time as the 6 nations.

Arguably you'd pick the fringe-but-not-quite-making-the-23 players like Pearson, Atkinson, Murley etc. in an A side if this game happened in isolation, but players who make the full 6 nations squad will presumably miss out even if they're not needed on the weekends.

I'm worried we'll see basically the same squad we have now (minus Lawes, Youngs, May) for the 6 nations, with a bunch of promising 22 year olds playing Portugal, and potentially still be left wondering if guys in the middle like Willis are up to it.

That's partly my worry, though some are more edge cases. Obviously Lawes, Youngs and May are gone. I'd wager Marler, Cole and Care will be eased off into the sunset maybe. Billy on form shouldn't be near it, but there is a while to go before the 6 Nations, but everything says he should be nowhere near.

No Ribbans or Marchant.

I suspect Farrell is going nowhere (sadly), George and Ford likewise. Manu, Daly, who knows.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:11 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:05 am It'll be interesting to see how this works while going on at the same time as the 6 nations.

Arguably you'd pick the fringe-but-not-quite-making-the-23 players like Pearson, Atkinson, Murley etc. in an A side if this game happened in isolation, but players who make the full 6 nations squad will presumably miss out even if they're not needed on the weekends.

I'm worried we'll see basically the same squad we have now (minus Lawes, Youngs, May) for the 6 nations, with a bunch of promising 22 year olds playing Portugal, and potentially still be left wondering if guys in the middle like Willis are up to it.

That's partly my worry, though some are more edge cases. Obviously Lawes, Youngs and May are gone. I'd wager Marler, Cole and Care will be eased off into the sunset maybe. Billy on form shouldn't be near it, but there is a while to go before the 6 Nations, but everything says he should be nowhere near.

No Ribbans or Marchant.

I suspect Farrell is going nowhere (sadly), George and Ford likewise. Manu, Daly, who knows.

You mention 14 names. I wonder if the future of English rugby is best served by keeping any of them. Could any single one claim that he has not peaked yet? Could any of them, if still at that peak, offer something that could not be surpassed by the potential ceiling of younger players in the mix?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:23 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:11 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:05 am It'll be interesting to see how this works while going on at the same time as the 6 nations.

Arguably you'd pick the fringe-but-not-quite-making-the-23 players like Pearson, Atkinson, Murley etc. in an A side if this game happened in isolation, but players who make the full 6 nations squad will presumably miss out even if they're not needed on the weekends.

I'm worried we'll see basically the same squad we have now (minus Lawes, Youngs, May) for the 6 nations, with a bunch of promising 22 year olds playing Portugal, and potentially still be left wondering if guys in the middle like Willis are up to it.

That's partly my worry, though some are more edge cases. Obviously Lawes, Youngs and May are gone. I'd wager Marler, Cole and Care will be eased off into the sunset maybe. Billy on form shouldn't be near it, but there is a while to go before the 6 Nations, but everything says he should be nowhere near.

No Ribbans or Marchant.

I suspect Farrell is going nowhere (sadly), George and Ford likewise. Manu, Daly, who knows.

You mention 14 names. I wonder if the future of English rugby is best served by keeping any of them. Could any single one claim that he has not peaked yet? Could any of them, if still at that peak, offer something that could not be surpassed by the potential ceiling of younger players in the mix?

In my opinion only Ford, but then so much change is potentially highly disruptive. It would be very hard to drop George and with the rest it would depend how they were playing and having viable alternatives. If it were me, which obviously it isn’t and my job is not judged by it, I’d ease out quite a few of that 14 and start the cycle now. The pack wouldn’t be disrupted too much, the scrum halves are no great loss on the pitch. They backline is the area with most change, but I’d say that’s good judging by what we’ve seen. But with that change has to come recognition that it’s not going to be fabulous from day one and there’s a huge learning curve for a large group of new players.

You want to give new players the best opportunity to thrive and that’s hard with major change.

Seeing this topic basically become Borthwick 2.0 2.0 confirms my suspicion that this is just going to be 23 more selections for us to get annoyed at.