RugbyRebels

Former Wasps, Worcester and L Irish academies closed by the RFU having centralised them since the clubs went bust. They are keeping Yorkshire who have been centrally funded for years.

Just seems so terrible short sighted! All those midlands based players (and coaching staff)!now without a home! Same with Irish! The logistics of taking players to the alternatives just isn’t viable for a lot of these kids!

The RFU are simply not fit for purpose!

https://nextgenxv.com/2024/04/10/rfu-pr ... agreement/

I don't know enough about academies to comment? Are academies not closely associated with clubs viable in the long- term? How can a player's career path work?

The other pertinent questions I don't know the answer to are how much do they cost and how much is that money needed elsewhere?

It's a real shame, but ultimately probably inevitable that clubs would want a big slice of territory and the RFU wouldn't mind removing the cost. Definitely feel for the players in those pathways though, with hundreds of kids potentially dropping out completely as I imagine the other clubs won't be taking everyone. Expect you'll have fewer kids overall involved in elite pathways in England which I struggle to see as a good thing.

Ideally the existing individual DPPs would remain in place and just taken over in their entirety, but I'd be surprised. Not sure what it would mean for the ACE teams either.

The really bold (albeit difficult) thing to do, would have been to centralise, given the RFU were running a third of the academies anyway

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:57 am I don't know enough about academies to comment? Are academies not closely associated with clubs viable in the long- term? How can a player's career path work?

They would be viable long term if funded. Yorkshire has been in place for a while now and will remain so. The best players are just picked up into the club system at 18. Many more have been well equipped by that point to go into BUCs rugby and may reappear in the prem in future.

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:20 am The really bold (albeit difficult) thing to do, would have been to centralise, given the RFU were running a third of the academies anyway

That thought had occurred to me as well. It's odd - the Yanks have a culture for a draft enough that they force one in when their development pathway doesn't really support it, while we've got absolutely no culture and no desire for one, but an absolutely ideal opportunity.

I've no doubt this is one part cost-cutting, and one part Quins/Sarries, Leicester/Northampton, and Gloucester all barracking to be allowed to take over the unallocated schools and areas, rather than keeping them as neutral for the likes of Bath to go shopping at.

Puja

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:20 am It's a real shame, but ultimately probably inevitable that clubs would want a big slice of territory and the RFU wouldn't mind removing the cost. Definitely feel for the players in those pathways though, with hundreds of kids potentially dropping out completely as I imagine the other clubs won't be taking everyone. Expect you'll have fewer kids overall involved in elite pathways in England which I struggle to see as a good thing.

Ideally the existing individual DPPs would remain in place and just taken over in their entirety, but I'd be surprised. Not sure what it would mean for the ACE teams either.

The really bold (albeit difficult) thing to do, would have been to centralise, given the RFU were running a third of the academies anyway

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:57 am I don't know enough about academies to comment? Are academies not closely associated with clubs viable in the long- term? How can a player's career path work?

They would be viable long term if funded. Yorkshire has been in place for a while now and will remain so. The best players are just picked up into the club system at 18. Many more have been well equipped by that point to go into BUCs rugby and may reappear in the prem in future.

The bit in bold is the ideal scenario! But never going to happen short term with the utter state the RFU is in.

There's a lot of very angry parents and very upset kids. It was the last session at Sixways last night. Serious anger around the place. It is proper short termism all round. Even a mid step to centralise both Mids academies into one would have been something. We're going to lose a lot of talented players, and not just today. For some in the future age groups it just won;t be feasible to go to the other clubs. If you're midlands now, you've got Sale, Glous, Tigers and Saints, every one of which is an utter ballache to get to if you're pretty central. Traditionally Stoke upwards is Sale, Lichfield kind of the boundary for Tigers, Saints and Glaws are much further out, which now leaves this amorphous blob in the middle with no home.

Just read the letter itself - that is appalling. "We haven't yet decided where the boundaries will be drawn and will get back to you at some point with that. Once we've done that, you need to phone your nearest club and ask for a space, cause we're certainly not helping anyone with anything, least of all making sure you're got somewhere to land. Byeeeeeeeeee."

Puja

It sounds like an absolute shambles for the kids and parents involved.

Even down the line the ultimate result of this will be significantly fewer kids playing elite rugby from U13 to U18. Primarily because there are fewer slots available, but also because the distances for some will be too much of a barrier for training. That can't ever be a good thing for the health of the pro or amateur game in England.

It was inevitable that it was going to happen - but (inevitably) looks to have been handled appallingly.

The hope was (and from a quick skim, still is) that we'll end up with more academies, each linked to a club in either the Prem or the Champ (whatever it ends up being called). But that might be optimistic.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:36 am Just read the letter itself - that is appalling. "We haven't yet decided where the boundaries will be drawn and will get back to you at some point with that. Once we've done that, you need to phone your nearest club and ask for a space, cause we're certainly not helping anyone with anything, least of all making sure you're got somewhere to land. Byeeeeeeeeee."

Puja

It is the RFU, did you expect anything other than appalling?

lol at the RFU wanting/demanding a good geographical spread in a revised Champ/Prem 2 and then doing the exact opposite with the academies.
It also goes back to my point of the RFU creating an environment where players want to play. If I had a son who had offers from academies in more than one sport I’m not sure I’d be recommending the rugby one… Everything stinks of poorly managed decline.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:02 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:36 am Just read the letter itself - that is appalling. "We haven't yet decided where the boundaries will be drawn and will get back to you at some point with that. Once we've done that, you need to phone your nearest club and ask for a space, cause we're certainly not helping anyone with anything, least of all making sure you're got somewhere to land. Byeeeeeeeeee."

Puja

It is the RFU, did you expect anything other than appalling?

FFS. Draw the boundaries first and then arrange for development pathway representatives from the club's splitting up the area to at the final sessions or giving presentations so that the families facing the upheaval have a point of contact. Surely that wouldn't have been difficult to organise.

I believe Tigers have a set up in Norfolk for their younger players and then channel their under 18s into th academy via Brooksby College (out in the countryside onsite accomodation). I'd expect them to then offer something similar in the West Mids if they get a big enough slice of the catchment area.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:55 am lol at the RFU wanting/demanding a good geographical spread in a revised Champ/Prem 2 and then doing the exact opposite with the academies.
It also goes back to my point of the RFU creating an environment where players want to play. If I had a son who had offers from academies in more than one sport I’m not sure I’d be recommending the rugby one… Everything stinks of poorly managed decline.

You would've thought the obvious thing would be to tie the two together - if we're having X "elite" clubs across the two divisions, then surely it makes sense for there to be that many academies. Even if they have to reduce funding to the non-Prem owned ones, it makes sense to keep the basic structure intact. As things stand, how are their plans going to work? If Worcester Phoenix get promoted from Prem 2, is there going to be a hasty reshuffle of boundary lines or will there be one team in Prem 2 with an academy and one team in Prem 1 without one?

I'm just glad there are no rugby league clubs anywhere in the area. They'd be hoovering up the entire age group if there were.

Puja

Funnily enough they have announced a plan to the council for consideration on 17th April. Seems the cart has run away from the horse.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:13 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:55 am lol at the RFU wanting/demanding a good geographical spread in a revised Champ/Prem 2 and then doing the exact opposite with the academies.
It also goes back to my point of the RFU creating an environment where players want to play. If I had a son who had offers from academies in more than one sport I’m not sure I’d be recommending the rugby one… Everything stinks of poorly managed decline.

You would've thought the obvious thing would be to tie the two together - if we're having X "elite" clubs across the two divisions, then surely it makes sense for there to be that many academies. Even if they have to reduce funding to the non-Prem owned ones, it makes sense to keep the basic structure intact. As things stand, how are their plans going to work? If Worcester Phoenix get promoted from Prem 2, is there going to be a hasty reshuffle of boundary lines or will there be one team in Prem 2 with an academy and one team in Prem 1 without one?

I'm just glad there are no rugby league clubs anywhere in the area. They'd be hoovering up the entire age group if there were.

Puja

Is Worcester Phoenix a thing? By no means certain even if there was that the second tier (whatever it’s called but not prem 2 at the mo) governance would let them in.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:02 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:36 am Just read the letter itself - that is appalling. "We haven't yet decided where the boundaries will be drawn and will get back to you at some point with that. Once we've done that, you need to phone your nearest club and ask for a space, cause we're certainly not helping anyone with anything, least of all making sure you're got somewhere to land. Byeeeeeeeeee."

Puja

It is the RFU, did you expect anything other than appalling?

Rarely, but this is a new and exciting low. It's not a great decision in the first place, but they've made it so much worse by doing it ineptly.

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:16 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:13 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:55 am lol at the RFU wanting/demanding a good geographical spread in a revised Champ/Prem 2 and then doing the exact opposite with the academies.
It also goes back to my point of the RFU creating an environment where players want to play. If I had a son who had offers from academies in more than one sport I’m not sure I’d be recommending the rugby one… Everything stinks of poorly managed decline.

You would've thought the obvious thing would be to tie the two together - if we're having X "elite" clubs across the two divisions, then surely it makes sense for there to be that many academies. Even if they have to reduce funding to the non-Prem owned ones, it makes sense to keep the basic structure intact. As things stand, how are their plans going to work? If Worcester Phoenix get promoted from Prem 2, is there going to be a hasty reshuffle of boundary lines or will there be one team in Prem 2 with an academy and one team in Prem 1 without one?

I'm just glad there are no rugby league clubs anywhere in the area. They'd be hoovering up the entire age group if there were.

Puja

Is Worcester Phoenix a thing? By no means certain even if there was that the second tier (whatever it’s called but not prem 2 at the mo) governance would let them in.

Nah, I was making up a for-example. As per usual, no-one's got the first clue what's going on, least of all the RFU. What happened to Arnold Rimmer or whatever the ex-league president that DCMS put in to oversee the RFU? Surely this is the kind of debacle he was put in place to avoid?

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:17 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:16 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:13 am

You would've thought the obvious thing would be to tie the two together - if we're having X "elite" clubs across the two divisions, then surely it makes sense for there to be that many academies. Even if they have to reduce funding to the non-Prem owned ones, it makes sense to keep the basic structure intact. As things stand, how are their plans going to work? If Worcester Phoenix get promoted from Prem 2, is there going to be a hasty reshuffle of boundary lines or will there be one team in Prem 2 with an academy and one team in Prem 1 without one?

I'm just glad there are no rugby league clubs anywhere in the area. They'd be hoovering up the entire age group if there were.

Puja

Is Worcester Phoenix a thing? By no means certain even if there was that the second tier (whatever it’s called but not prem 2 at the mo) governance would let them in.

Nah, I was making up a for-example. As per usual, no-one's got the first clue what's going on, least of all the RFU. What happened to Arnold Rimmer or whatever the ex-league president that DCMS put in to oversee the RFU? Surely this is the kind of debacle he was put in place to avoid?

Puja

No DCMS are just overseeing how they get re paid. There is a separate governance review of the RFU.

The clue in all this is the PGP. Follow the money.

Is there any good news in English rugby? It is beginning to feel like we are following Australia into oblivion.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:26 am Is there any good news in English rugby? It is beginning to feel like we are following Australia into oblivion.

Not much frankly, though there is some good rugby being played by the likes of Saints, and I did think the end of the 6N was positive.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:17 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:16 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:13 am

You would've thought the obvious thing would be to tie the two together - if we're having X "elite" clubs across the two divisions, then surely it makes sense for there to be that many academies. Even if they have to reduce funding to the non-Prem owned ones, it makes sense to keep the basic structure intact. As things stand, how are their plans going to work? If Worcester Phoenix get promoted from Prem 2, is there going to be a hasty reshuffle of boundary lines or will there be one team in Prem 2 with an academy and one team in Prem 1 without one?

I'm just glad there are no rugby league clubs anywhere in the area. They'd be hoovering up the entire age group if there were.

Puja

Is Worcester Phoenix a thing? By no means certain even if there was that the second tier (whatever it’s called but not prem 2 at the mo) governance would let them in.

What happened to Arnold Rimmer

Puja

I think Mr Flibble is in charge…

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:21 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:17 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:16 am
Is Worcester Phoenix a thing? By no means certain even if there was that the second tier (whatever it’s called but not prem 2 at the mo) governance would let them in.

Nah, I was making up a for-example. As per usual, no-one's got the first clue what's going on, least of all the RFU. What happened to Arnold Rimmer or whatever the ex-league president that DCMS put in to oversee the RFU? Surely this is the kind of debacle he was put in place to avoid?

Puja

No DCMS are just overseeing how they get re paid. There is a separate governance review of the RFU.

The clue in all this is the PGP. Follow the money.

Btw… warriors have got a plan

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:26 am Is there any good news in English rugby? It is beginning to feel like we are following Australia into oblivion.

We've got a phenomenal group of young players coming through, the sabotage of the Dean Ryan years appears to be subsiding, and the last couple of games of the 6N is suggesting that the coaching group might know what they're doing. There's been a new TV deal signed for Prem rugby so there's no chance of them being homeless, and crowd numbers have stabilised after COVID.

If we can see some international success, interest will start going up again - English casual fans don't follow a minority sport where England are losing. We can get back into a growth spiral again if Sleek Backcombing can bring the results.

Let's not dwell on where the game might be if he can't though. Posssibly the most crucial 4 years in English rugby ever coming up.

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:57 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:21 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:17 am

Nah, I was making up a for-example. As per usual, no-one's got the first clue what's going on, least of all the RFU. What happened to Arnold Rimmer or whatever the ex-league president that DCMS put in to oversee the RFU? Surely this is the kind of debacle he was put in place to avoid?

Puja

No DCMS are just overseeing how they get re paid. There is a separate governance review of the RFU.

The clue in all this is the PGP. Follow the money.

Btw… warriors have got a plan

Is it as cunning as a fox who is professor of cunning at Oxford university?

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:17 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:26 am Is there any good news in English rugby? It is beginning to feel like we are following Australia into oblivion.

We've got a phenomenal group of young players coming through, the sabotage of the Dean Ryan years appears to be subsiding, and the last couple of games of the 6N is suggesting that the coaching group might know what they're doing. There's been a new TV deal signed for Prem rugby so there's no chance of them being homeless, and crowd numbers have stabilised after COVID.

If we can see some international success, interest will start going up again - English casual fans don't follow a minority sport where England are losing. We can get back into a growth spiral again if Sleek Backcombing can bring the results.

Let's not dwell on where the game might be if he can't though. Posssibly the most crucial 4 years in English rugby ever coming up.

Puja

And woman’s rugby top to bottom.