PGP
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:26 pm
TY.
I'll have a read when I have a little time
Page 1 of 2
Re: PGP
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:31 pm
Re: PGP
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:47 pm
Depressing read as the fan of a Championship clu… sorry, Championship/Tier 2 club.
Anyone got any ideas as to why ‘there is currently a major gap in competitiveness and playing budgets between the Gallagher Premiership and Championship clubs and the financial requirements needed to compete in the Premiership’?
Anyone got any ideas as to why ‘there is currently a major gap in competitiveness and playing budgets between the Gallagher Premiership and Championship clubs and the financial requirements needed to compete in the Premiership’?
Re: PGP
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:59 pm
Frankly, I think it's because you haven't been trying hard enough.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:47 pm Depressing read as the fan of a Championship clu… sorry, Championship/Tier 2 club.
Anyone got any ideas as to why ‘there is currently a major gap in competitiveness and playing budgets between the Gallagher Premiership and Championship clubs and the financial requirements needed to compete in the Premiership’?
Puja
Re: PGP
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 9:02 pm
It does seem the only logical answer.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:59 pmFrankly, I think it's because you haven't been trying hard enough.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:47 pm Depressing read as the fan of a Championship clu… sorry, Championship/Tier 2 club.
Anyone got any ideas as to why ‘there is currently a major gap in competitiveness and playing budgets between the Gallagher Premiership and Championship clubs and the financial requirements needed to compete in the Premiership’?
Puja
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:40 am
Some positive things.
trying to get the Pro game aligned is welcome, financial oversight is well overdue, the pathways look sensible, expanding the u20s and committing to more A games, and England having control over their key players seems pretty sound.
trying to get the Pro game aligned is welcome, financial oversight is well overdue, the pathways look sensible, expanding the u20s and committing to more A games, and England having control over their key players seems pretty sound.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:47 am
Seems being the key word. Devil being in the detail and implementation, eg rumours the RFU can’t actually afford to award all of the central contracts.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:40 am Some positive things.
trying to get the Pro game aligned is welcome, financial oversight is well overdue, the pathways look sensible, expanding the u20s and committing to more A games, and England having control over their key players seems pretty sound.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:57 am
Telegraph doing a good bit of analysis on the changes to the academy structures and catchment areas: https://archive.ph/tynN5
It looks a lot fairer and saner split than previously, even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol enough space, and there's still some anomalies like Colchester parents having to drive their children 5.5 hours round trip to Northampton training, rather than the 3 hours to Saracens.
Puja
It looks a lot fairer and saner split than previously, even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol enough space, and there's still some anomalies like Colchester parents having to drive their children 5.5 hours round trip to Northampton training, rather than the 3 hours to Saracens.
Puja
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:12 pm
Be interesting to overlay catchment sizes and actual rugby schools as well.....Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:57 am Telegraph doing a good bit of analysis on the changes to the academy structures and catchment areas: https://archive.ph/tynN5
It looks a lot fairer and saner split than previously, even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol enough space, and there's still some anomalies like Colchester parents having to drive their children 5.5 hours round trip to Northampton training, rather than the 3 hours to Saracens.
Puja
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:13 pm
agreed, not sure they know what they are looking at, yes, yes, maybe and yes.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:40 am Some positive things.
trying to get the Pro game aligned is welcome, financial oversight is well overdue, the pathways look sensible, expanding the u20s and committing to more A games, and England having control over their key players seems pretty sound.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:23 pm
The RFU trying to claim that clubs that put more effort into their catchment areas reap greater rewards is a bit comedic when you look at the great transfer of talent from state to private scholarship at 6th form level.Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:12 pmBe interesting to overlay catchment sizes and actual rugby schools as well.....Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:57 am Telegraph doing a good bit of analysis on the changes to the academy structures and catchment areas: https://archive.ph/tynN5
It looks a lot fairer and saner split than previously, even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol enough space, and there's still some anomalies like Colchester parents having to drive their children 5.5 hours round trip to Northampton training, rather than the 3 hours to Saracens.
Puja
Spotting a few more difficulties for parents based on that map - a parent in Slough could get to Harlequins in 35 minutes, but now has to take their 15 year old over 2 hours to get to Bath. I don't know what the answer is though.
Gods help us should the nightmare scenario happen and some Championship club dare to get promoted.
Puja
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:23 pm
You'd hope it would be Doncaster so you could give them the area currently marked as Prem Rugby and encourage them to grow their academy.Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:23 pmThe RFU trying to claim that clubs that put more effort into their catchment areas reap greater rewards is a bit comedic when you look at the great transfer of talent from state to private scholarship at 6th form level.Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:12 pmBe interesting to overlay catchment sizes and actual rugby schools as well.....Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:57 am Telegraph doing a good bit of analysis on the changes to the academy structures and catchment areas: https://archive.ph/tynN5
It looks a lot fairer and saner split than previously, even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol enough space, and there's still some anomalies like Colchester parents having to drive their children 5.5 hours round trip to Northampton training, rather than the 3 hours to Saracens.
Puja
Spotting a few more difficulties for parents based on that map - a parent in Slough could get to Harlequins in 35 minutes, but now has to take their 15 year old over 2 hours to get to Bath. I don't know what the answer is though.
Gods help us should the nightmare scenario happen and some Championship club dare to get promoted.
Puja
Ealing would cause issues.
As usual it's a case of which schools you get rather than the geographic area.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:46 pm
The majority of that stays pretty local / within catchment. For example, here lads at Lichfield will be offered places at Brooksby. They streamline them into feeder schools from state schools, where there are feeders. Round London(ish) area there's more choice so they don't have to. And like it or not, they do have the best facilities, coaches and buy in from the school. The investment in catchment boils down to community club and schools engagement, which is a mixed old bag. My eldest goes to a school in Worcester's old catchment, and Tigers reached out a good while ago to start dialogue with the school coaches.Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:23 pmThe RFU trying to claim that clubs that put more effort into their catchment areas reap greater rewards is a bit comedic when you look at the great transfer of talent from state to private scholarship at 6th form level.Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:12 pmBe interesting to overlay catchment sizes and actual rugby schools as well.....Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:57 am Telegraph doing a good bit of analysis on the changes to the academy structures and catchment areas: https://archive.ph/tynN5
It looks a lot fairer and saner split than previously, even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol enough space, and there's still some anomalies like Colchester parents having to drive their children 5.5 hours round trip to Northampton training, rather than the 3 hours to Saracens.
Puja
Spotting a few more difficulties for parents based on that map - a parent in Slough could get to Harlequins in 35 minutes, but now has to take their 15 year old over 2 hours to get to Bath. I don't know what the answer is though.
Gods help us should the nightmare scenario happen and some Championship club dare to get promoted.
Puja
But the local community clubs will essentially lose any promising players from Colts as they're not allowed to play, focussing more on school rugby and DPP.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 2:01 pm
unless they've recruited a shed load unlikely- Coventry are the ones to watch imo. And yes, the point about schools i made earlier re overlaying the clubs academy areas.FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:23 pmYou'd hope it would be Doncaster so you could give them the area currently marked as Prem Rugby and encourage them to grow their academy.Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:23 pmThe RFU trying to claim that clubs that put more effort into their catchment areas reap greater rewards is a bit comedic when you look at the great transfer of talent from state to private scholarship at 6th form level.
Spotting a few more difficulties for parents based on that map - a parent in Slough could get to Harlequins in 35 minutes, but now has to take their 15 year old over 2 hours to get to Bath. I don't know what the answer is though.
Gods help us should the nightmare scenario happen and some Championship club dare to get promoted.
Puja
Ealing would cause issues.
As usual it's a case of which schools you get rather than the geographic area.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:26 pm
Yeah Tigers have been partnered with Brooksby for a while now. It's an agricultural college in Melton. Lots of room for pitches, boarding options and is part of an academy with other sites that offers various courses. Allows Tigers almost a finishing school leading into the academy though plenty still attend elsewhere.Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:46 pmThe majority of that stays pretty local / within catchment. For example, here lads at Lichfield will be offered places at Brooksby. They streamline them into feeder schools from state schools, where there are feeders. Round London(ish) area there's more choice so they don't have to. And like it or not, they do have the best facilities, coaches and buy in from the school. The investment in catchment boils down to community club and schools engagement, which is a mixed old bag. My eldest goes to a school in Worcester's old catchment, and Tigers reached out a good while ago to start dialogue with the school coaches.Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:23 pmThe RFU trying to claim that clubs that put more effort into their catchment areas reap greater rewards is a bit comedic when you look at the great transfer of talent from state to private scholarship at 6th form level.
Spotting a few more difficulties for parents based on that map - a parent in Slough could get to Harlequins in 35 minutes, but now has to take their 15 year old over 2 hours to get to Bath. I don't know what the answer is though.
Gods help us should the nightmare scenario happen and some Championship club dare to get promoted.
Puja
But the local community clubs will essentially lose any promising players from Colts as they're not allowed to play, focussing more on school rugby and DPP.
Not been there in a long time but used to be a nice campus.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:43 pm
I read that Borthwick is considering 15 rather than 25. His choice or budgetary?Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:47 amSeems being the key word. Devil being in the detail and implementation, eg rumours the RFU can’t actually afford to award all of the central contracts.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:40 am Some positive things.
trying to get the Pro game aligned is welcome, financial oversight is well overdue, the pathways look sensible, expanding the u20s and committing to more A games, and England having control over their key players seems pretty sound.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:45 pm
yesOakboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:43 pmI read that Borthwick is considering 15 rather than 25. His choice or budgetary?Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:47 amSeems being the key word. Devil being in the detail and implementation, eg rumours the RFU can’t actually afford to award all of the central contracts.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:40 am Some positive things.
trying to get the Pro game aligned is welcome, financial oversight is well overdue, the pathways look sensible, expanding the u20s and committing to more A games, and England having control over their key players seems pretty sound.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:48 pm
I’d seen a couple of sources a few weeks ago that said budgetary.Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:43 pmI read that Borthwick is considering 15 rather than 25. His choice or budgetary?Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:47 amSeems being the key word. Devil being in the detail and implementation, eg rumours the RFU can’t actually afford to award all of the central contracts.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:40 am Some positive things.
trying to get the Pro game aligned is welcome, financial oversight is well overdue, the pathways look sensible, expanding the u20s and committing to more A games, and England having control over their key players seems pretty sound.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:34 pm
Is it also a good idea to hold back a few deals as otherwise chopping and changing every 12 months could leave players in tough positions. Keeping a few contracts back to potentially tempt player back from France might also work, Joe Marchant is out of contract next summer for starters.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:47 pm
Good point. I'm actually in favour of them having a bit of scarcity and value rather than just being automatically doled out to the first 25.FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:34 pm Is it also a good idea to hold back a few deals as otherwise chopping and changing every 12 months could leave players in tough positions. Keeping a few contracts back to potentially tempt player back from France might also work, Joe Marchant is out of contract next summer for starters.
Puja
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:13 pm
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:20 pm
Worth seeing how many they actually award but they’ve paid handsomely for the central(ish) contracts so to only use 60% wastes an awful lot of money. I’m also not sure about needing that much wiggle room to change - just like RWC squads, HC’s will have more than 15 squad certainties.
As for scarcity, then 25 is scarce enough surely.
As for scarcity, then 25 is scarce enough surely.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:21 pm
As for the academy boundaries, why do we think they’ll cede any territory to a Championship/Tier 2 club who aren’t a PR member?
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:56 pm
Yeah, a Championship club would have to get promoted, stick around, produce a decent chunk of cash and jump through a lot of hoops before they ever got given an academy.
Re: PGP
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:58 pm
Every contract is going have to be a player who is a guarantee for the next 2-3 season though, isn't it? Are there 25 who we can guarantee will be fixtures in 3 years' time? Apart from anything else, Dan Cole and Will Stuart are currently squad certainties, but I'm hoping they won't be in a couple of years. And wouldn't it make sense to hold back contracts and leave room for players who will break through and may require a contract going forwards - who would've given a central contract to Feyi-Waboso in 2023, for example? It'd be sensible to hold some back in case we need to keep that kind of bolter out of the clutches of the Top 14, or in case JWillis makes noises about wanting to come back, etc.Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:20 pm Worth seeing how many they actually award but they’ve paid handsomely for the central(ish) contracts so to only use 60% wastes an awful lot of money. I’m also not sure about needing that much wiggle room to change - just like RWC squads, HC’s will have more than 15 squad certainties.
As for scarcity, then 25 is scarce enough surely.
Puja