(New on Youtube) Wibble Rugby: The England Defence | From Foundations to Fortress

[Insouciant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_lzE1GVxXU

Just finished watching this video, it's very in depth so thought it deserved a signal-boost. As always with Wibble Rugby it's a longer form essay (1 hour this time) and lighter on jokes than a Squidge video. It is, however, definitely well researched and hopefully gives at least theory on some of the goings on in the England and the intentions going forwards. As always there's great play analysis, this of England's defensive system, which as all know has much discussed over the past 12 months. Hope some of you guys have the time to give it a watch.

For the record, I didn't make this video. I just happen to think that the quality of output he delivers is particularly high and deserves to be spread to as many rugby fans as possible.

[Mikey Brown]

I might well check this out, but remember being very confused watching his last one where he kept saying “the England defence will bend, but never break” which seemed to be the complete polar opposite of what everyone else in the world was seeing. Awesome when it works, but catastrophic when it doesn’t.

Maybe just a poor choice of phrase though. He did seem pretty knowledgeable.

[Captainhaircut]

It’s a fairly optimistic take but no real issue with that.

I would take issue with the fact that is misses a glaring issue with this defensive system. The video makes numerous points about Laker and Nienaber working on this defence at the Stormers. It isn’t that different to any of the systems ran by SA clubs.

He then notes that Exeter are the only club to run this England and how vital Slade and IFW therefore are. This is the main crux of the issue- saffas are familiar with this system or something like it. It’s completely alien to what nearly all our clubs do which means it’s never really going to be a goer given the limited time we have with the players.

[Mellsblue]

Yet Felix Jones had his SA like system running pretty well vs NZ in the summer.

[Banquo]

It’s a fairly optimistic take but no real issue with that.

I would take issue with the fact that is misses a glaring issue with this defensive system. The video makes numerous points about Laker and Nienaber working on this defence at the Stormers. It isn’t that different to any of the systems ran by SA clubs.

He then notes that Exeter are the only club to run this England and how vital Slade and IFW therefore are. This is the main crux of the issue- saffas are familiar with this system or something like it. It’s completely alien to what nearly all our clubs do which means it’s never really going to be a goer given the limited time we have with the players.

Yet from memory it was slade and IFW who seemed the least connected and most exposed?

And this is what coaches are paid for- but if your underlying point is don't use a system that won't work because of time/player ability/whatever then agreed. Its the definition of madness or summat.

[Captainhaircut]

Yet Felix Jones had his SA like system running pretty well vs NZ in the summer.

Don’t think it was a coincidence that the defence looked far worse once IFW went off against Oz.

You can’t build a defence around a 13 and 14 who play it for their clubs and then just hope they don’t get injured/lose form.

[Mellsblue]

Yet Felix Jones had his SA like system running pretty well vs NZ in the summer.

Don’t think it was a coincidence that the defence looked far worse once IFW went off against Oz.

You can’t build a defence around a 13 and 14 who play it for their clubs and then just hope they don’t get injured/lose form.

We looked terrible in defence all autumn because we had a new defence coach trying to patch together a system he’d never coached before. Freeman, whose club play a wholly different system, didn’t have any problems getting used to the system under Jones.
The crux of my argument is that if your coaches are good enough then they have enough time with squad to implement what they want

I’m confused by your last point. You’ve been arguing this week that we need to pick club combos for familiarity but now you’re saying we shouldn’t in case they get injured/lose form.

[Captainhaircut]

Yet Felix Jones had his SA like system running pretty well vs NZ in the summer.

Don’t think it was a coincidence that the defence looked far worse once IFW went off against Oz.

You can’t build a defence around a 13 and 14 who play it for their clubs and then just hope they don’t get injured/lose form.

We looked terrible in defence all autumn because we had a new defence coach trying to patch together a system he’d never coached before. Freeman, whose club play a wholly different system, didn’t have any problems getting used to the system under Jones.
The crux of my argument is that if your coaches are good enough then they have enough time with squad to implement what they want

I’m confused by your last point. You’ve been arguing this week that we need to pick club combos for familiarity but now you’re saying we shouldn’t in case they get injured/lose form.

I didn’t necessarily argue for it. Just said that Borthwick can’t complain about lack of familiarity and then not pick a single club partnership.

[Mellsblue]

Don’t think it was a coincidence that the defence looked far worse once IFW went off against Oz.

You can’t build a defence around a 13 and 14 who play it for their clubs and then just hope they don’t get injured/lose form.

We looked terrible in defence all autumn because we had a new defence coach trying to patch together a system he’d never coached before. Freeman, whose club play a wholly different system, didn’t have any problems getting used to the system under Jones.
The crux of my argument is that if your coaches are good enough then they have enough time with squad to implement what they want

I’m confused by your last point. You’ve been arguing this week that we need to pick club combos for familiarity but now you’re saying we shouldn’t in case they get injured/lose form.

I didn’t necessarily argue for it. Just said that Borthwick can’t complain about lack of familiarity and then not pick a single club partnership.

You necessarily did:
‘you might actually get a better side even if you pick lesser players in some cases’

[Captainhaircut]

We looked terrible in defence all autumn because we had a new defence coach trying to patch together a system he’d never coached before. Freeman, whose club play a wholly different system, didn’t have any problems getting used to the system under Jones.
The crux of my argument is that if your coaches are good enough then they have enough time with squad to implement what they want

I’m confused by your last point. You’ve been arguing this week that we need to pick club combos for familiarity but now you’re saying we shouldn’t in case they get injured/lose form.

I didn’t necessarily argue for it. Just said that Borthwick can’t complain about lack of familiarity and then not pick a single club partnership.

You necessarily did:
‘you might actually get a better side even if you pick lesser players in some cases’

Not going to argue further on what I did or didn’t say. Notice the word “might” and it being part of a wider statement re borthwick not being able to complain about cohesion AND pick the side he did.

You MIGHT get a better side. You MIGHT not. Choose which path you want to go down but then don’t complain that you didn’t go down the other one as if you weren’t in control of that.

[Mellsblue]

I didn’t necessarily argue for it. Just said that Borthwick can’t complain about lack of familiarity and then not pick a single club partnership.

You necessarily did:
‘you might actually get a better side even if you pick lesser players in some cases’

Not going to argue further on what I did or didn’t say. Notice the word “might” and it being part of a wider statement re borthwick not being able to complain about cohesion AND pick the side he did.

You MIGHT get a better side. You MIGHT not. Choose which path you want to go down but then don’t complain that you didn’t go down the other one as if you weren’t in control of that.

Now you’re contradicting yourself within posts!
He’s fine to argue about lack of cohesion in a week when playing Ire/Leinster just as Easterby is fine to argue about lack of strength in depth. Each system has its own downsides. If he and his coaches are good at their jobs then they’ll solve the cohesion problem. The d is looking good so far despite only having two weeks in camp…