RugbyRebels

He’s done some good stuff recently, but I really laughed at one point when Saracens went full on Harlem Globetrotters mode, flying up the pitch, then it went to Farrell who just stuttered and flung it to nobody.

Good game other than that though.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:24 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:11 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:06 pm

He doesn't anymore but he certainly has done in the past. Quite a bit when Chargedown Charlie was at Sarries with him.

The biggest issue most had with Farrell was that he was one paced in attack and that there was a lack of creation. Two things you can't level at him this season, if he continues to play like this then he could be the starting 10 for England in the AIs. Would allow a Manu and Porter Marchant combination in the centres which would make England quite a bit more dangerous. Well whilst Manu is fit anyway.

It’s a long long time since he started there. I would only play him at 10, as he will still be too slow for an intl 12. Not sure why you think his pace has improved tbh. He’s a poor centre and has always been intls.

Lol @ Porter

I was thinking more of his ability to move the ball and generate momentum with the one paced comment. There has tended to be very little risk or deception in a Farrell attack. This season he's been a revelation. Sarries attack looks as dangerous as anything Quins or Saints are doing. Farrell is at the heart of it as well.

fine but its his actual pace at 12 thats an issue. He's always been a very good club 10 and an effective fulcrum, which is what he is doing now. Not sure it says anything about improved ability to play 12 internationally.

I guess a bit like Daly- player looks good in team playing well shock . A while ago, any Sarries win sees Faz as motm , not so now. Worth a thought.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:59 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:54 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:52 pm

Farrell never plays 12 for Sarries yet...

Dalys time has probably gone, but some of his best years have been a bit wasted- and iirc he was injured a fait bit in the last year or so ?

Very true. One of the reasons why I’m not proclaiming his as ‘England’s best 12’.

....so who do you proclaim thus? Must admit I thought you supported faz at 12. I assume he is `in the conversation?

The easy answer is Tuilagi, but that feels very theoretical these days.

You’re right though. I do support Farrell at 12. Mostly due to the lack of other genuinely viable options in recent times and also because if he must play (which seems inevitable), I’d prefer it was at 12 rather than 10.

If he and Saracens continue playing in their current guise, I might be tempted to revise that opinion though.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:02 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:59 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:54 pm

Very true. One of the reasons why I’m not proclaiming his as ‘England’s best 12’.

....so who do you proclaim thus? Must admit I thought you supported faz at 12. I assume he is `in the conversation?

The easy answer is Tuilagi, but that feels very theoretical these days.

You’re right though. I do support Farrell at 12. Mostly due to the lack of other genuinely viable options.

despite not ever playing there for his club, Manu not much either. Slight disconnect v Daly tbh

Fair point, but the difference is that Daly has plenty of good competition for a spot on the wing. Farrell and Manu have very little at 12. We don’t have to play someone out of position on the wing, but we’re more or less forced to at 12.

Manu might not have played much but when he does feature for Sale it is usually at 12. In fact, I think he may only have played at 12 for them.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:43 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:24 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:11 pm
It’s a long long time since he started there. I would only play him at 10, as he will still be too slow for an intl 12. Not sure why you think his pace has improved tbh. He’s a poor centre and has always been intls.

Lol @ Porter

I was thinking more of his ability to move the ball and generate momentum with the one paced comment. There has tended to be very little risk or deception in a Farrell attack. This season he's been a revelation. Sarries attack looks as dangerous as anything Quins or Saints are doing. Farrell is at the heart of it as well.

fine but its his actual pace at 12 thats an issue. He's always been a very good club 10 and an effective fulcrum, which is what he is doing now. Not sure it says anything about improved ability to play 12 internationally.

I guess a bit like Daly- player looks good in team playing well shock . A while ago, any Sarries win sees Faz as motm , not so now. Worth a thought.

In this kind of form with a new lease of creativity I was suggesting that Farrell to 10 could be the better option. I agree he's a very limited 12 at international level.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:29 pm Fair point, but the difference is that Daly has plenty of good competition for a spot on the wing. Farrell and Manu have very little at 12. We don’t have to play someone out of position on the wing, but we’re more or less forced to at 12.

Manu might not have played much but when he does feature for Sale it is usually at 12. In fact, I think he may only have played at 12 for them.

Daly is a proven top class wing, so why shouldn`t he be in the same conversation as Nowell, May, Watson?

No problem with Manu at 12, and if all his 11 starts for Sale have been at 12 so be it- but I'd think Daly has more intl wing minutes than Manu has intly at 12

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:19 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:43 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:24 pm

I was thinking more of his ability to move the ball and generate momentum with the one paced comment. There has tended to be very little risk or deception in a Farrell attack. This season he's been a revelation. Sarries attack looks as dangerous as anything Quins or Saints are doing. Farrell is at the heart of it as well.

fine but its his actual pace at 12 thats an issue. He's always been a very good club 10 and an effective fulcrum, which is what he is doing now. Not sure it says anything about improved ability to play 12 internationally.

I guess a bit like Daly- player looks good in team playing well shock . A while ago, any Sarries win sees Faz as motm , not so now. Worth a thought.

In this kind of form with a new lease of creativity I was suggesting that Farrell to 10 could be the better option. I agree he's a very limited 12 at international level.

then why make the point that he had played for sarries at 12 in the past?

I think we should go full left field and try Ted Hill at 12…

I hope Owen Farrell becomes head coach in 5 years time just so he can haunt your dreams for a few years longer.

morepork wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:14 am I hope Owen Farrell becomes head coach in 5 years time just so he can haunt your dreams for a few years longer.

If you could fuck off in the nicest possible way.

Very hard.

Extremely far.

Nicely, though.

Has he got kids? I hadn’t even thought about that.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:19 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:29 pm Fair point, but the difference is that Daly has plenty of good competition for a spot on the wing. Farrell and Manu have very little at 12. We don’t have to play someone out of position on the wing, but we’re more or less forced to at 12.

Manu might not have played much but when he does feature for Sale it is usually at 12. In fact, I think he may only have played at 12 for them.

Daly is a proven top class wing, so why shouldn`t he be in the same conversation as Nowell, May, Watson?

No problem with Manu at 12, and if all his 11 starts for Sale have been at 12 so be it- but I'd think Daly has more intl wing minutes than Manu has intly at 12

OK - let’s simplify this …

I challenged Oakboy’s comment that Daly is ‘England’s best winger’. I stand by my comment that he’s ‘not in the conversation for that accolade’. To laud someone as the ‘best’, I think it has to be a pretty unequivocal argument. If we put it to a poll, I’d be very surprised if Daly came out on top, or even in the top 3.

That doesn’t mean I don’t rate him. I’m simply qualifying my original statement.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:23 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:19 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:43 pm
fine but its his actual pace at 12 thats an issue. He's always been a very good club 10 and an effective fulcrum, which is what he is doing now. Not sure it says anything about improved ability to play 12 internationally.

I guess a bit like Daly- player looks good in team playing well shock . A while ago, any Sarries win sees Faz as motm , not so now. Worth a thought.

In this kind of form with a new lease of creativity I was suggesting that Farrell to 10 could be the better option. I agree he's a very limited 12 at international level.

then why make the point that he had played for sarries at 12 in the past?

Sorry, two different points. I'll make it clearer next time.

TheNomad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:07 pm I think we should go full left field and try Ted Hill at 12…

Put him at 13. Based on the summer tour we don't actually plan on passing to our 13 unless we urgently need someone to crash it up so it's mainly a defensive position now.

Who is going to start at 3 in the first AI?

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:52 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:19 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:29 pm Fair point, but the difference is that Daly has plenty of good competition for a spot on the wing. Farrell and Manu have very little at 12. We don’t have to play someone out of position on the wing, but we’re more or less forced to at 12.

Manu might not have played much but when he does feature for Sale it is usually at 12. In fact, I think he may only have played at 12 for them.

Daly is a proven top class wing, so why shouldn`t he be in the same conversation as Nowell, May, Watson?

No problem with Manu at 12, and if all his 11 starts for Sale have been at 12 so be it- but I'd think Daly has more intl wing minutes than Manu has intly at 12

OK - let’s simplify this …

I challenged Oakboy’s comment that Daly is ‘England’s best winger’. I stand by my comment that he’s ‘not in the conversation for that accolade’. To laud someone as the ‘best’, I think it has to be a pretty unequivocal argument. If we put it to a poll, I’d be very surprised if Daly came out on top, or even in the top 3.

That doesn’t mean I don’t rate him. I’m simply qualifying my original statement.

I think he could -still - be the best wing we have but tricky to know, and more importantly how are we wanting to play and who else is being considered; I think with his track record and skills he should be in a conversation about our best wings. Just opinion and not sure a ‘poll’ is a great measure

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:53 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:23 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:19 pm

In this kind of form with a new lease of creativity I was suggesting that Farrell to 10 could be the better option. I agree he's a very limited 12 at international level.

then why make the point that he had played for sarries at 12 in the past?

Sorry, two different points. I'll make it clearer next time.

I’m old, have to bear with me

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:11 am Who is going to start at 3 in the first AI?

Will Stuart I imagine with Heyes on the bench. Sinckler hasn’t shown the form to make the training squad, let alone regain the shirt. Shickerling has had a great start to the season, but until his scrummaging improves, I think he’s only really a bench option.

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:29 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:52 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:19 pm

Daly is a proven top class wing, so why shouldn`t he be in the same conversation as Nowell, May, Watson?

No problem with Manu at 12, and if all his 11 starts for Sale have been at 12 so be it- but I'd think Daly has more intl wing minutes than Manu has intly at 12

OK - let’s simplify this …

I challenged Oakboy’s comment that Daly is ‘England’s best winger’. I stand by my comment that he’s ‘not in the conversation for that accolade’. To laud someone as the ‘best’, I think it has to be a pretty unequivocal argument. If we put it to a poll, I’d be very surprised if Daly came out on top, or even in the top 3.

That doesn’t mean I don’t rate him. I’m simply qualifying my original statement.

I think he could -still - be the best wing we have but tricky to know, and more importantly how are we wanting to play and who else is being considered; I think with his track record and skills he should be in a conversation about our best wings. Just opinion and not sure a ‘poll’ is a great measure

Well I wasn’t actually going to post a poll.

If we said ‘pick your England back three’, how many pick Daly? Not that many IMO.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:35 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:29 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:52 am

OK - let’s simplify this …

I challenged Oakboy’s comment that Daly is ‘England’s best winger’. I stand by my comment that he’s ‘not in the conversation for that accolade’. To laud someone as the ‘best’, I think it has to be a pretty unequivocal argument. If we put it to a poll, I’d be very surprised if Daly came out on top, or even in the top 3.

That doesn’t mean I don’t rate him. I’m simply qualifying my original statement.

I think he could -still - be the best wing we have but tricky to know, and more importantly how are we wanting to play and who else is being considered; I think with his track record and skills he should be in a conversation about our best wings. Just opinion and not sure a ‘poll’ is a great measure

Well I wasn’t actually going to post a poll.

If we said ‘pick your England back three’, how many pick Daly? Not that many IMO.

Who are we polling?

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:32 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:11 am Who is going to start at 3 in the first AI?

Will Stuart I imagine with Heyes on the bench. Sinckler hasn’t shown the form to make the training squad, let alone regain the shirt. Shickerling has had a great start to the season, but until his scrummaging improves, I think he’s only really a bench option.

I still want some kind of hint as to how Schickerling's remotely EQ. I'd like to assume somone at the RFU has definitive evidence, but Spain's supporters wanted to assume that about van den Berg and look where that got them.

Puja

Schickerling can only qualify on residency. I assume he only needed to serve a 3 year spell as he arrived in England (November 2018) before the qualification period was extended.
I cannot believe the RFU havent looked into this and had confirmation that he can be picked.
If Stuart and Heyes are fit, I think they will play in the autumn. Sinckler looks way off his best. SChickerling might get a spot on the bench if there is an injury, or Jones fancies giving him a run against Japan.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:32 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:11 am Who is going to start at 3 in the first AI?

Will Stuart I imagine with Heyes on the bench. Sinckler hasn’t shown the form to make the training squad, let alone regain the shirt. Shickerling has had a great start to the season, but until his scrummaging improves, I think he’s only really a bench option.

Can't disagree. I suppose Cole will have his advocates which brings all sorts of contradictions floating about. He was seen as a poor substitute for Sinckler back in 2019 yet starts (usually) ahead of Heyes for Leicester.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:30 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:32 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:11 am Who is going to start at 3 in the first AI?

Will Stuart I imagine with Heyes on the bench. Sinckler hasn’t shown the form to make the training squad, let alone regain the shirt. Shickerling has had a great start to the season, but until his scrummaging improves, I think he’s only really a bench option.

Can't disagree. I suppose Cole will have his advocates which brings all sorts of contradictions floating about. He was seen as a poor substitute for Sinckler back in 2019 yet starts (usually) ahead of Heyes for Leicester.

I think the RWC Final unfairly adjusted the view of Cole. The England pack had a torrid time at the scrum and for some reason he took all the blame. I'm not convinced it would have been any better with Sinckler in there. The scrum didn't improve until Mako was replaced with Marler but anyway that's an old conversation.

Dan Cole has changed significantly as a player in the last couple of seasons, slightly ironically since he started working with the Boks world cup winning S&C coach (Pollard named him as one of the reasons he signed for Tigers). Cole is leaner and more mobile now, getting some pre seasons under the belt has certainly helped as has Tigers use of the bench so he isn't flogged for 80 mins every week.

I would be pushing the Dan Cole panic button yet though. Heyes, Stuart and Shickerling are all young (for a prop) and hungry and more game time will only make them better and increase the competition. Stuart looked solid on the summer tour and Schickerling looks like he could be a very handy impact sub, you'd be worried about an early injury to Stuart if Schickerling was on the bench though.

Apologies for the source but here Schickerling is explaining how he qualifies.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... Jones.html