RugbyRebels

The impressive wins for Munster and Leinster this weekend only confirm that the Irish must be odds on favourites for a back-to-back Grand Slam.
Their most difficult match, arguably, will be the last Saturday in Cardiff.

francoisfou wrote:The impressive wins for Munster and Leinster this weekend only confirm that the Irish must be odds on favourites for a back-to-back Grand Slam.
Their most difficult match, arguably, will be the last Saturday in Cardiff.

Dominant from the irish.

Yep. Ominously so.

Our best chance is to capitalise on their propensity for a poor first game. That’s not much to hang out hat on though.

Don’t get me wrong, I think we’ll put up a reasonable fight, but with the team I expect Eddie to pick, I think we’ll be looking at a 5-10 point loss.

On the other hand, IF we can somehow play to our potential, we are capable of beating them and there would be no better start to a World Cup year.

I think that we should be able to keep it tight if we are properly prepared. Where the game might get away from us is in the penalty count. I see Jérôme Garcès is the referee. If we get off on the wrong foot with him, it could go badly, especially in the scrum. It would be a major risk to have Farrell as captain (or co-captain - not that I'd have any of those anyway). We really need Hartley to start.

I’m not without optimism tbh. Keeping my powder dry on predictions until I see who’s fit, there’s still 3 weeks for a dozen key players to cripple themselves getting out the bath.

All being relatively well injury wise though, we have some serious weapons to throw at them and it’ll be interesting to see how they deal with us.

Oakboy wrote:I think that we should be able to keep it tight if we are properly prepared. Where the game might get away from us is in the penalty count. I see Jérôme Garcès is the referee. If we get off on the wrong foot with him, it could go badly, especially in the scrum. It would be a major risk to have Farrell as captain (or co-captain - not that I'd have any of those anyway). We really need Hartley to start.

Is there any way that we won't get off on the wrong foot with him against Ireland?!

oldbackrow wrote:

Oakboy wrote:I think that we should be able to keep it tight if we are properly prepared. Where the game might get away from us is in the penalty count. I see Jérôme Garcès is the referee. If we get off on the wrong foot with him, it could go badly, especially in the scrum. It would be a major risk to have Farrell as captain (or co-captain - not that I'd have any of those anyway). We really need Hartley to start.

Is there any way that we won't get off on the wrong foot with him against Ireland?!

I'd say about 1% if Farrell is in his ear as captain but up to about 40% if it's Hartley. Mind you, IF we get off to a flier in the first 10, Garces might decide to niggle the Irish, especially if we do well at the first scrum.

Oakboy wrote:I think that we should be able to keep it tight if we are properly prepared. Where the game might get away from us is in the penalty count. I see Jérôme Garcès is the referee. If we get off on the wrong foot with him, it could go badly, especially in the scrum. It would be a major risk to have Farrell as captain (or co-captain - not that I'd have any of those anyway). We really need Hartley to start.

Dylan Hartley that famous diplomat...

switchskier wrote:

Stom wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote: Jesus. I'm a big admirer of Underhill (long before you guys got on board) but back row I think we've got you absolutely cuffed with any one of our top 2 or 3: POM/SOB/CJ; Jordi/Leavy/Conan; Ruddock/vdF/andok I'm struggling for a 3rd quality number 8 but you get my drift.

And Stom, JJ was a fine player when last he was fit, but he hasn't been a leading centre in Europe for at least 3 years. And I'm not sure Ford has ever been considered in the top 4 or 5 fly halves in club rugby in Europe. Great matches from time to time but sustained seasons of excellence?

Can you really name 4 or 5 better 10s?

Ford is a talented player with great hands and vision. He's brave and got good technique in defence too. He should be one of the best players in the world but when I see him play he dominates too rarely.

So if I was starting a new club I'd personally choose to build a club around Sexton, Russell, Carberry, Farrell or Cipriani instead and that's without considering southern hemisphere players. Ford is in the conversation along with Patchell, Belleau and Biggar just a level below.

And it is worth remembering that we've had the likes of Dan Carter plying his trade in European competition in the past few years when Ford has been active. Good player as I say, but not conspicuously one of Europe club rugby's leading lights and that even for someone like me who doesn't buy that he's weak in defence.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

switchskier wrote:

Stom wrote:
Can you really name 4 or 5 better 10s?

Ford is a talented player with great hands and vision. He's brave and got good technique in defence too. He should be one of the best players in the world but when I see him play he dominates too rarely.

So if I was starting a new club I'd personally choose to build a club around Sexton, Russell, Carberry, Farrell or Cipriani instead and that's without considering southern hemisphere players. Ford is in the conversation along with Patchell, Belleau and Biggar just a level below.

And it is worth remembering that we've had the likes of Dan Carter plying his trade in European competition in the past few years when Ford has been active. Good player as I say, but not conspicuously one of Europe club rugby's leading lights and that even for someone like me who doesn't buy that he's weak in defence.

But who is there who is conspicuously better?

And also, on your backrow point: that seems more about setup than anything, to be honest. Whenever I see those players in exclusion, I don't think much of them. But when they're working in the team unit, they work incredibly well.

I think this is part of the reason you've bought in Farrell and trained him up to take over from Schmidt. You need continuity in the system. As soon as you lose that...

Whereas we have a truly atrocious system that doesn't get the most out of our players. Plus a dumpster fire of a situation at 9, which doesn't help anything.

Stom wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

switchskier wrote:
Ford is a talented player with great hands and vision. He's brave and got good technique in defence too. He should be one of the best players in the world but when I see him play he dominates too rarely.

So if I was starting a new club I'd personally choose to build a club around Sexton, Russell, Carberry, Farrell or Cipriani instead and that's without considering southern hemisphere players. Ford is in the conversation along with Patchell, Belleau and Biggar just a level below.

And it is worth remembering that we've had the likes of Dan Carter plying his trade in European competition in the past few years when Ford has been active. Good player as I say, but not conspicuously one of Europe club rugby's leading lights and that even for someone like me who doesn't buy that he's weak in defence.

But who is there who is conspicuously better?

And also, on your backrow point: that seems more about setup than anything, to be honest. Whenever I see those players in exclusion, I don't think much of them. But when they're working in the team unit, they work incredibly well.

I think this is part of the reason you've bought in Farrell and trained him up to take over from Schmidt. You need continuity in the system. As soon as you lose that...

Whereas we have a truly atrocious system that doesn't get the most out of our players. Plus a dumpster fire of a situation at 9, which doesn't help anything.

Your point was/is that English players are being held back by their system and that the fact that they were doing so well with their clubs including in Europe indicated their true value. So if for us run of the mill, he's run off the mill and doesn't absence that argument.

And if you think it's system alone that makes the players good then you're not looking closely enough.

Dai's general comments on why english teams are under performing.

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/ot ... ng-2423777

How many English coaches ply their trade in France, Wales, or Ireland? I know grumpy elf Sean Edwards, and Chippy Senior Farrell is with Ireland, but is getting out of the English system for a professional stint uncommon?

Uncommon yes, but not unheard of. Others in the GP who've worked in France includes King, Deano, Cockerill (who's in Jockland now) , Worsley is still in France, Burt obviously in Ireland. But it would be a positive for more coaches to get out and about, and to more countries

Surely it's the number of teams rather than the salary cap that's the problem.

2/3s of our the AI squad didn't play for the top 2 teams in the premiership

Getting young coaches at the start of their careers wouldn't be a bad thing. Is Worsley doing anything good, or just showing massive French munters how to run through brick walls?

Alex King was in France, no? And there's always Mike Ford...

morepork wrote:Getting young coaches at the start of their careers wouldn't be a bad thing. Is Worsley doing anything good, or just showing massive French munters how to run through brick walls?

Joe's teaching building the brick wall, not the breaking of it.

Also abroad are Geoff Parling who's working in Australia and Joe El Abd in Castres. Plus Borthwick also worked abroad in Japan before coming to England.

The one thing we're lacking is any head coaches abroad. There's Cockerill and Ford and that's basically it.

Puja

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:Getting young coaches at the start of their careers wouldn't be a bad thing. Is Worsley doing anything good, or just showing massive French munters how to run through brick walls?

Joe's teaching building the brick wall, not the breaking of it.

Also abroad are Geoff Parling who's working in Australia and Joe El Abd in Castres. Plus Borthwick also worked abroad in Japan before coming to England.

The one thing we're lacking is any head coaches abroad. There's Cockerill and Ford and that's basically it.

Puja

Worsley is now head coach, replacing Rory Teague. Isn’t the Ulster head coach an Englishman.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:Getting young coaches at the start of their careers wouldn't be a bad thing. Is Worsley doing anything good, or just showing massive French munters how to run through brick walls?

Joe's teaching building the brick wall, not the breaking of it.

Also abroad are Geoff Parling who's working in Australia and Joe El Abd in Castres. Plus Borthwick also worked abroad in Japan before coming to England.

The one thing we're lacking is any head coaches abroad. There's Cockerill and Ford and that's basically it.

Puja

Worsley is now head coach, replacing Rory Teague. Isn’t the Ulster head coach an Englishman.

Dan McFarland, and yes he is. Andy Farrell will soon be a head coach too.

Timbo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:
Joe's teaching building the brick wall, not the breaking of it.

Also abroad are Geoff Parling who's working in Australia and Joe El Abd in Castres. Plus Borthwick also worked abroad in Japan before coming to England.

The one thing we're lacking is any head coaches abroad. There's Cockerill and Ford and that's basically it.

Puja

Worsley is now head coach, replacing Rory Teague. Isn’t the Ulster head coach an Englishman.

Dan McFarland, and yes he is. Andy Farrell will soon be a head coach too.

I didn't know the Ulster guy was English. Useful knowledge.

Puja

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:Getting young coaches at the start of their careers wouldn't be a bad thing. Is Worsley doing anything good, or just showing massive French munters how to run through brick walls?

Joe's teaching building the brick wall, not the breaking of it.

Also abroad are Geoff Parling who's working in Australia and Joe El Abd in Castres. Plus Borthwick also worked abroad in Japan before coming to England.

The one thing we're lacking is any head coaches abroad. There's Cockerill and Ford and that's basically it.

Puja

Head coaches are built not forged. I had forgotten about Parling. Must like it in Melbourne. It’s the early career stage guys like that England should be keeping an eye on. I know he is Irish, but Ronan O’Gara will be one to watch after he is done in NZ.

Anyone know when the squad is due to be announced?

Puja

Pretty sure it’s Thursday

Before the last European games? I guess that makes sense as he wants to get them in camp on Monday, but it does seem a little brave vis-a-vis injuries.

Puja