RugbyRebels

Just got back from the game. Very disappointing match, South Africa bullied us in the first half but didn't really have to do much to win the game.

I felt there were a couple of positives though. The replacement front row were very good.

Replacement scrum half was much better and got some quick ball.

Hill and Willis put in some massive hits and look like quality players In defence.

Parton/Lawrence/Dingwall and Loader all once or twice looked potentially dangerous, just didn't get enough ball!

fivepointer wrote:Struggling to find any positives from that. We were understandably a bit rusty, but some of our play was woeful, lacking in accuracy or any kind of fluency. Pretty brainless at times too.
A number of players with big reps produced very little of note.
Hopefully we'll go well at the JWC having got this out of our system.

That's pretty much the long and short of it. I know it was a scratch side and a first hit-out, but the players looked like they hadn't met before the game. The only people who looked quality were Hinkley, Parton and Loader - everyone else was average to poor.

Puja

Warrior85 wrote:Just got back from the game. Very disappointing match, South Africa bullied us in the first half but didn't really have to do much to win the game.

I felt there were a couple of positives though. The replacement front row were very good.

Replacement scrum half was much better and got some quick ball.

Hill and Willis put in some massive hits and look like quality players In defence.

Parton/Lawrence/Dingwall and Loader all once or twice looked potentially dangerous, just didn't get enough ball!

Lawrence and Dingwall didn't do anything. (I'm a big Lawrence fan though)

Tigersman wrote:

Warrior85 wrote:Just got back from the game. Very disappointing match, South Africa bullied us in the first half but didn't really have to do much to win the game.

I felt there were a couple of positives though. The replacement front row were very good.

Replacement scrum half was much better and got some quick ball.

Hill and Willis put in some massive hits and look like quality players In defence.

Parton/Lawrence/Dingwall and Loader all once or twice looked potentially dangerous, just didn't get enough ball!

Lawrence and Dingwall didn't do anything. (I'm a big Lawrence fan though)

It's why I said once or twice and potentially. They both had at least one instance where they looked like they possibly could do something....I was trying really hard to find any sort of positives!

No great surprise in that result. An almost scratch side with 10 first team players missing. Disappointing with some of the decision making and execution, but it will serve as a good warm up against a well drilled SA side who did look like they’ll cause a few teams some issues at the JWC.

Yep the boks were very impressive. Big and nasty but just much smarter making the right decisions.

That being said the whole point of these games is to expose the lads to rugby like this. England surely can improve massively on that performance. That being said I doubt we will trouble NZ this year. Do they get a curry or a marcus smith for the tourney or are they officially not in that group of players now?

twitchy wrote:Yep the boks were very impressive. Big and nasty but just much smarter making the right decisions.

That being said the whole point of these games is to expose the lads to rugby like this. England surely can improve massively on that performance. That being said I doubt we will trouble NZ this year. Do they get a curry or a marcus smith for the tourney or are they officially not in that group of players now?

It just depends. They could both be picked, and it’s toss a coin whether we do or not. Obviously Isiekwe, Earl and Redpath won’t be there

Tigersman wrote:
Lawrence and Dingwall didn't do anything. (I'm a big Lawrence fan though)

I thought Lawrence looked slack and off the pace. Several times he failed to arrive as he should to make a tackle (too late to be labelled as having missed a tackle). Having not seen him before, I was presumably missing something?

Oakboy wrote:

Tigersman wrote:
Lawrence and Dingwall didn't do anything. (I'm a big Lawrence fan though)

I thought Lawrence looked slack and off the pace. Several times he failed to arrive as he should to make a tackle (too late to be labelled as having missed a tackle). Having not seen him before, I was presumably missing something?

It was a bad game, prob missed having Butler inside him but he has looked very good for Wuss against bigger opp.
He's still U18 player, needed that more experience player inside him most likely.

SA had two warm up games before this and it looked like that helped them alot, maybe U20's need to look at doing more of these warm up games pre JRWC.

twitchy wrote:Yep the boks were very impressive. Big and nasty but just much smarter making the right decisions.

That being said the whole point of these games is to expose the lads to rugby like this. England surely can improve massively on that performance. That being said I doubt we will trouble NZ this year. Do they get a curry or a marcus smith for the tourney or are they officially not in that group of players now?

curry was there yesterday I think just not playing.

So are we likely to have a load of our best players back for the JWC or not?

Timbo wrote:So are we likely to have a load of our best players back for the JWC or not?

i guess so the squad hasn't been announced yet.
I would imagine Hardwick, Olowofela, Ibitoye and Butler will be available bar injuries.
Not sure on Smith though.

Personally I'm hoping of a team of.
1. Trinder, 2. Walker, 3. Painter
4. Lewis, 5. Lamb
6. Hill, 7. Curry, 8. Willis
9. Snow, 10. Smith
12. Butler, 13. James,
11. Ibitoye, 14. Loader, 15. Parton

16. Erm someone other than Oghre, 17. Seville, 18. Heyes
19. Basham, 20. Hinkley
21. White, 22. Hardwick, 23. Olowofela

Still a bit of worry up front, but IMO Lewis and Lamb was the best combo in the 6N's by miles.
Isiewke would have made a massive difference.

Some reason we always struggle at 2 and 9 at this level can't remember the last player to impress me at this level in those positions.
Singleton is pulling up trees in the prem but for U20's he was pretty poor. Guess it's to do with them not having much time together and being the key people for set pieces.

Marcus Street will probably start, expect Sam Moore to be back and if fit Ali Crossdsle should be in the squad. Matt Williams too.

Actually I think Sam Moore is out with an ankle injury.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Marcus Street will probably start, expect Sam Moore to be back and if fit Ali Crossdsle should be in the squad. Matt Williams too.

I don't see Street getting ahead of Painter or Heyes ATM.

Moore IMO not better than Willis either, actually been really disappointed in Moore considering the hype about Wales trying to cap him already.

Tigersman wrote: Some reason we always struggle at 2 and 9 at this level can't remember the last player to impress me at this level in those positions.
Singleton is pulling up trees in the prem but for U20's he was pretty poor. Guess it's to do with them not having much time together and being the key people for set pieces.

It is really something isn't it, and it's gone on for too long to just be a coincidence. Our age groups turn out props, locks, flankers, fly-halves, centres, wings, and full-backs with great regularity, but we always seem to have a scrum-half that passes in slow motion and a hooker who can't hit the broad side of a barn

Very few of them go on to blossom and become Premiership or internationals either: Cook, Robson and Singleton are the only ones I can think of (as LCD was a 1 at age grade, or at least very recently converted to hooker).

Puja

Puja wrote:

Tigersman wrote: Some reason we always struggle at 2 and 9 at this level can't remember the last player to impress me at this level in those positions.
Singleton is pulling up trees in the prem but for U20's he was pretty poor. Guess it's to do with them not having much time together and being the key people for set pieces.

It is really something isn't it, and it's gone on for too long to just be a coincidence. Our age groups turn out props, locks, flankers, fly-halves, centres, wings, and full-backs with great regularity, but we always seem to have a scrum-half that passes in slow motion and a hooker who can't hit the broad side of a barn

Very few of them go on to blossom and become Premiership or internationals either: Cook, Robson and Singleton are the only ones I can think of (as LCD was a 1 at age grade, or at least very recently converted to hooker).

Puja

From U20’s you’ve also got Youngs, Simpson, Townsend, Spencer at 9. Maybe argue Braley.....ish

LCD was a hooker in the 2013 squad.

Jack Maunder, international but not really a prem regular.

Tigersman wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Marcus Street will probably start, expect Sam Moore to be back and if fit Ali Crossdsle should be in the squad. Matt Williams too.

I don't see Street getting ahead of Painter or Heyes ATM.

Moore IMO not better than Willis either, actually been really disappointed in Moore considering the hype about Wales trying to cap him already.

For me Street’s ahead of both.

I get you on Moore. Somewhat moot as he’s out. Willis, Curry, Hill / Basham works for me.

I’d love to see Ibitoye, Parton and Crossdale in the back 3, with Loader off the bench. If we get Smith it makes a big difference.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:

Tigersman wrote: Some reason we always struggle at 2 and 9 at this level can't remember the last player to impress me at this level in those positions.
Singleton is pulling up trees in the prem but for U20's he was pretty poor. Guess it's to do with them not having much time together and being the key people for set pieces.

It is really something isn't it, and it's gone on for too long to just be a coincidence. Our age groups turn out props, locks, flankers, fly-halves, centres, wings, and full-backs with great regularity, but we always seem to have a scrum-half that passes in slow motion and a hooker who can't hit the broad side of a barn

Very few of them go on to blossom and become Premiership or internationals either: Cook, Robson and Singleton are the only ones I can think of (as LCD was a 1 at age grade, or at least very recently converted to hooker).

Puja

From U20’s you’ve also got Youngs, Simpson, Townsend, Spencer at 9. Maybe argue Braley.....ish

LCD was a hooker in the 2013 squad.

Fair enough - few more Prem regulars than I thought. However, if memory serves, they were all varying degrees of crap for the U20s.

Puja

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Jack Maunder, international but not really a prem regular.

Maunder played 1 England U20 game.

But as Puja says who was last one to impress at U20 level for England?

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:
It is really something isn't it, and it's gone on for too long to just be a coincidence. Our age groups turn out props, locks, flankers, fly-halves, centres, wings, and full-backs with great regularity, but we always seem to have a scrum-half that passes in slow motion and a hooker who can't hit the broad side of a barn

Very few of them go on to blossom and become Premiership or internationals either: Cook, Robson and Singleton are the only ones I can think of (as LCD was a 1 at age grade, or at least very recently converted to hooker).

Puja

From U20’s you’ve also got Youngs, Simpson, Townsend, Spencer at 9. Maybe argue Braley.....ish

LCD was a hooker in the 2013 squad.

Fair enough - few more Prem regulars than I thought. However, if memory serves, they were all varying degrees of crap for the U20s.

Puja

Joe Simpson was a nominee for World Young Player of the Year.

Harry Randall was very good the last couple of years at 9. At Bristol next season so we'll see how he goes. Thought Henry Taylor looked good for a season but he's done nothing since moving on. Max Green is getting a bit of game time at Bath and may get more next season.
As far as hookers go, jack Walker was really good and i'm sure would be an established prem player had he not had 2 seasons ruined by injury.
I wouldnt write Henry Walker off though. He's very good in the loose, but just needs to get his throwing to be far more consistent. Ogrhe too is good in the loose. I wonder if some of these are converted back rowers, so have limited experience of the set piece play that is vital to the role?
But on the whole, we have struggled to develop good SHs and hookers.

I think Will Butler copped a nasty injury last week and wont make the JWC.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
From U20’s you’ve also got Youngs, Simpson, Townsend, Spencer at 9. Maybe argue Braley.....ish

LCD was a hooker in the 2013 squad.

Fair enough - few more Prem regulars than I thought. However, if memory serves, they were all varying degrees of crap for the U20s.

Puja

Joe Simpson was a nominee for World Young Player of the Year.

Because he ran well and made lots of breaks, not because his passes were accurate or swift.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:
Fair enough - few more Prem regulars than I thought. However, if memory serves, they were all varying degrees of crap for the U20s.

Puja

Joe Simpson was a nominee for World Young Player of the Year.

Because he ran well and made lots of breaks, not because his passes were accurate or swift.

Puja

Good enough to ranked as one of the top three players in the world. I doubt he’d be nominated if he was slinging passes all over the place. Granted, it’s one in the last n years but he must’ve done something right.