RugbyRebels

Can one look forward to the match without having masochistic tendencies?

Yep…

Get to watch the best team in the world and gauge the spirit (or lack there of) of our team…
As well as the hugely improbably chance of how good a win would feel… I'm looking forward to tomorrow!

Well said, that man! I suppose I'm just so pissed off with where Jones has got us at this stage. We should not be desperately hoping for an outside chance of winning. But, you are right. Enjoy the spectacle for what it is and convince myself that at least we have not peaked too soon.

Oakboy wrote:Well said, that man! I suppose I'm just so pissed off with where Jones has got us at this stage. We should not be desperately hoping for an outside chance of winning. But, you are right. Enjoy the spectacle for what it is and convince myself that at least we have not peaked too soon.

- I'm pissed off with English rugby as a whole,
- I'm utterly bewildered by the rugby media's views on certain players,
- I'm flabbergasted with Jones' decisions pretty much most of the time (I'd say I agree with 8 of the 23 picked in tomorrow's game with the numbers on the backs that EJ has picked!)
- I'm worried about the next year and what might happen…

And I'm still looking forward to watching tomorrow's game!

Ye feckers have ruined this for me, I'm going to sit down in total schnaudenfraude hoping too see ye stuffed and ye'll probably turn in a plucky performance and hold em to a late victory

I'm warming to a hard fought yet ultimately comfortable win for our lads. An Ashton hat-trick might be pushing it but a Shields brace is a possibilty

Here’s some warm-up viewing to get you in the mood:

I hear our loosehead is getting angry ahead of the match, I see a bad moon rising

Lizard wrote:Here’s some warm-up viewing to get you in the mood:

I feel like we won the battle of the haka though.

Since the world and its wife are banging on about 2012 in the UK media, here's a bit of variety:



Puja

Looking forward to it immensely. We may be at a bit of a low ebb, but its going to be fascinating to see how we play.

fivepointer wrote:Looking forward to it immensely. We may be at a bit of a low ebb, but its going to be fascinating to see how we play.

Yes, can Jones get the absolute best out of each player AND the team unit?


Collectively:
Can we kick well enough not to gift them possession in dangerous areas? Can we defend well enough to deny them chances (NZ will not spurn them like SA)? Can we create enough? Can we keep the ball for prolonged periods?


Individually:
There are just so many questions. I think two crucial ones are whether Kruis and Youngs can step up. Based on the Lions, might Kruis not be up to competing with the very best (I admit to not rating him so am prejudiced)? Can Youngs pass quickly and kick selectively (his usual aimless box-kicking could hand NZ victory on a plate)?

Lizard wrote:Here’s some warm-up viewing to get you in the mood:

I was there that day! Kel Tremain was one of the great NZ wing forwards !

Digby wrote:I hear our loosehead is getting angry ahead of the match, I see a bad moon rising

Maybe a little credence in what you say

p/d wrote:I'm warming to a hard fought yet ultimately comfortable win for our lads. An Ashton hat-trick might be pushing it but a Shields brace is a possibilty

I hope so... Or squeezing a win by a lucky point.

The odds are tempting - England are 6.8 to 1 on Betfair Exchange. Not that NZ should'nt be strong favourites, but nearly 7s on a two-horse race is good value.

Oakboy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Looking forward to it immensely. We may be at a bit of a low ebb, but its going to be fascinating to see how we play.

Yes, can Jones get the absolute best out of each player AND the team unit?


Collectively:
Can we kick well enough not to gift them possession in dangerous areas? Can we defend well enough to deny them chances (NZ will not spurn them like SA)? Can we create enough? Can we keep the ball for prolonged periods?


Individually:
There are just so many questions. I think two crucial ones are whether Kruis and Youngs can step up. Based on the Lions, might Kruis not be up to competing with the very best (I admit to not rating him so am prejudiced)? Can Youngs pass quickly and kick selectively (his usual aimless box-kicking could hand NZ victory on a plate)?

Did you not watch Kruis last week? He was, at worst, our second best player - such luminaries as Diggers had him as motm. That was against a pack that, man for man, you could argue are better than the Kiwis.
The second row I worry about is Itoje. He needs to stop the silly penalties, especially early on. Worryingly, one of the coaches - Hatley or Borthwick - said it’s a price to pay for him playing on the edge. If the SA line out had functioned that price would’ve been 5/7 points to SA in the first 10 mins.

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Looking forward to it immensely. We may be at a bit of a low ebb, but its going to be fascinating to see how we play.

Yes, can Jones get the absolute best out of each player AND the team unit?


Collectively:
Can we kick well enough not to gift them possession in dangerous areas? Can we defend well enough to deny them chances (NZ will not spurn them like SA)? Can we create enough? Can we keep the ball for prolonged periods?


Individually:
There are just so many questions. I think two crucial ones are whether Kruis and Youngs can step up. Based on the Lions, might Kruis not be up to competing with the very best (I admit to not rating him so am prejudiced)? Can Youngs pass quickly and kick selectively (his usual aimless box-kicking could hand NZ victory on a plate)?

Did you not watch Kruis last week? He was, at worst, our second best player - such luminaries as Diggers had him as motm. That was against a pack that, man for man, you could argue are better than the Kiwis.
The second row I worry about is Itoje. He needs to stop the silly penalties, especially early on. Worryingly, one of the coaches - Hatley or Borthwick - said it’s a price to pay for him playing on the edge. If the SA line out had functioned that price would’ve been 5/7 points to SA in the first 10 mins.

I had Kruis as our MoM, I'd have given actual MoM to De Allende. It's also quite possible Kruis is more suited to the style of SA play than NZ

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Looking forward to it immensely. We may be at a bit of a low ebb, but its going to be fascinating to see how we play.

Yes, can Jones get the absolute best out of each player AND the team unit?


Collectively:
Can we kick well enough not to gift them possession in dangerous areas? Can we defend well enough to deny them chances (NZ will not spurn them like SA)? Can we create enough? Can we keep the ball for prolonged periods?


Individually:
There are just so many questions. I think two crucial ones are whether Kruis and Youngs can step up. Based on the Lions, might Kruis not be up to competing with the very best (I admit to not rating him so am prejudiced)? Can Youngs pass quickly and kick selectively (his usual aimless box-kicking could hand NZ victory on a plate)?

Did you not watch Kruis last week? He was, at worst, our second best player - such luminaries as Diggers had him as motm. That was against a pack that, man for man, you could argue are better than the Kiwis.
The second row I worry about is Itoje. He needs to stop the silly penalties, especially early on. Worryingly, one of the coaches - Hatley or Borthwick - said it’s a price to pay for him playing on the edge. If the SA line out had functioned that price would’ve been 5/7 points to SA in the first 10 mins.

Yes, I saw him. He was functionally efficient in the main in a horrendous game against a pack that stuttered and under-performed. Maybe, Kruis was an integral part of not allowing them to function. I just can't take to him and admit to my prejudice. He reminds me of Joe Bugner - never quite punching his weight but looking like a giant.

The pairing with Itoje works because Itoje does the in-your-face stuff. Maybe, we should just look at the partnership for what it contributes, including penalties. I would never select Kruis with any other lock, though I'd select Itoje with anybody.

I sincerely hope my concerns about Kruis are mistaken. I seem to be in a minority of one.

Oakboy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Yes, can Jones get the absolute best out of each player AND the team unit?


Collectively:
Can we kick well enough not to gift them possession in dangerous areas? Can we defend well enough to deny them chances (NZ will not spurn them like SA)? Can we create enough? Can we keep the ball for prolonged periods?


Individually:
There are just so many questions. I think two crucial ones are whether Kruis and Youngs can step up. Based on the Lions, might Kruis not be up to competing with the very best (I admit to not rating him so am prejudiced)? Can Youngs pass quickly and kick selectively (his usual aimless box-kicking could hand NZ victory on a plate)?

Did you not watch Kruis last week? He was, at worst, our second best player - such luminaries as Diggers had him as motm. That was against a pack that, man for man, you could argue are better than the Kiwis.
The second row I worry about is Itoje. He needs to stop the silly penalties, especially early on. Worryingly, one of the coaches - Hatley or Borthwick - said it’s a price to pay for him playing on the edge. If the SA line out had functioned that price would’ve been 5/7 points to SA in the first 10 mins.

Yes, I saw him. He was functionally efficient in the main in a horrendous game against a pack that stuttered and under-performed. Maybe, Kruis was an integral part of not allowing them to function. I just can't take to him and admit to my prejudice. He reminds me of Joe Bugner - never quite punching his weight but looking like a giant.

The pairing with Itoje works because Itoje does the in-your-face stuff. Maybe, we should just look at the partnership for what it contributes, including penalties. I would never select Kruis with any other lock, though I'd select Itoje with anybody.

I sincerely hope my concerns about Kruis are mistaken. I seem to be in a minority of one.

I think Kruis and Launch could work well.

francoisfou wrote:

Lizard wrote:Here’s some warm-up viewing to get you in the mood:

I was there that day! Kel Tremain was one of the great NZ wing forwards !

Interesting to note the rapid setting of the scrums, the straight feed by the scrum half, no "round the corner" place kicking.
The good 'aul days, eh!

Oakboy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Yes, can Jones get the absolute best out of each player AND the team unit?


Collectively:
Can we kick well enough not to gift them possession in dangerous areas? Can we defend well enough to deny them chances (NZ will not spurn them like SA)? Can we create enough? Can we keep the ball for prolonged periods?


Individually:
There are just so many questions. I think two crucial ones are whether Kruis and Youngs can step up. Based on the Lions, might Kruis not be up to competing with the very best (I admit to not rating him so am prejudiced)? Can Youngs pass quickly and kick selectively (his usual aimless box-kicking could hand NZ victory on a plate)?

Did you not watch Kruis last week? He was, at worst, our second best player - such luminaries as Diggers had him as motm. That was against a pack that, man for man, you could argue are better than the Kiwis.
The second row I worry about is Itoje. He needs to stop the silly penalties, especially early on. Worryingly, one of the coaches - Hatley or Borthwick - said it’s a price to pay for him playing on the edge. If the SA line out had functioned that price would’ve been 5/7 points to SA in the first 10 mins.

Yes, I saw him. He was functionally efficient in the main in a horrendous game against a pack that stuttered and under-performed. Maybe, Kruis was an integral part of not allowing them to function. I just can't take to him and admit to my prejudice. He reminds me of Joe Bugner - never quite punching his weight but looking like a giant.

The pairing with Itoje works because Itoje does the in-your-face stuff. Maybe, we should just look at the partnership for what it contributes, including penalties. I would never select Kruis with any other lock, though I'd select Itoje with anybody.

I sincerely hope my concerns about Kruis are mistaken. I seem to be in a minority of one.

You do need functionally efficient players, though. I’d say he was better than that, but even if we agree on that description it’s damning on the other players and makes a mockery of him being a player identified as needing to perform.
You also can’t underestimate his lineout work. Kay put forward a theory that the reason the Saffers kept going to the tail was they were worried about Kruis’s lineout work. If so, you could argue that, with help from his assistant Malcolm Debbie McGee Marx, he single-handedly won us the match. Plus, he doesn’t play in a dinner suit.

Kruis (for me) sometimes develops bars of soap for hands, and that seems to throw his whole game
But, he's not the player I'm worried about stepping up today…

Shields, Youngs, Te'o, and Daly would be where I'd want the majority of improvement
Youngs is the one player there that I doubt we'll see it at all

francoisfou wrote:

francoisfou wrote:

Lizard wrote:Here’s some warm-up viewing to get you in the mood:

I was there that day! Kel Tremain was one of the great NZ wing forwards !

Interesting to note the rapid setting of the scrums, the straight feed by the scrum half, no "round the corner" place kicking.
The good 'aul days, eh!

The feeding last week was a farking joke. My eldest was losing his s**t about. “But the laws say it must be straight. Why is the ref allowing it?”. All I could say in reply was that I honestly didn’t know.

Renniks wrote:Kruis (for me) sometimes develops bars of soap for hands, and that seems to throw his whole game
But, he's not the player I'm worried about stepping up today…

This is true. He really wasn’t in good enough form to go to NZ for the Lions and the fumbles just sent him in a downwards spiral. He’s back to his best now and deserves to be in the team.

Mellsblue wrote:

Renniks wrote:Kruis (for me) sometimes develops bars of soap for hands, and that seems to throw his whole game
But, he's not the player I'm worried about stepping up today…

This is true. He really wasn’t in good enough form to go to NZ for the Lions and the fumbles just sent him in a downwards spiral. He’s back to his best now and deserves to be in the team.

I seem to remember it happening for Sarries a couple of times too, and, whilst I always seem to think it's the high pressure games that cause it - I imagine that's a huge confirmation bias on my part

Renniks wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Renniks wrote:Kruis (for me) sometimes develops bars of soap for hands, and that seems to throw his whole game
But, he's not the player I'm worried about stepping up today…

This is true. He really wasn’t in good enough form to go to NZ for the Lions and the fumbles just sent him in a downwards spiral. He’s back to his best now and deserves to be in the team.

I seem to remember it happening for Sarries a couple of times too, and, whilst I always seem to think it's the high pressure games that cause it - I imagine that's a huge confirmation bias on my part

Truth is that he wasn’t in very good form for most of 2017 through to the start of this season.