RugbyRebels

OptimisticJock wrote:Who's Davidson?

Didn't realise Horne went there and Hughes was only a loan was he not?

Andrew Davidson. U20 lock/blindside.

hp18 wrote:Hasn't done Horne, Davidson, Hughes any harm.

Mini Horne, Davidson and Hughes aren't really comparable to Fergusson in this case IMO. The 1st 3 are loan deals specifically to get them game time, like when Edinburgh sent Rambo to Bristol.

Fergusson has been released and LS has picked him up. It may be that the new LS/SRU partnership means that this is a short term (year or 2) with a view to coming back up here but as Baz says very few young 'uns go down south to the Championship and do anything significant (in terms of making it at a bigger club or internationals).

Off the top of my head the likes of Garry Law, David Young, Harry Leonard, McColl, Flockhart and many others have at one point been contracted to a pro team (or the SRU) and let go to play in in the championship and have never really done any thing more in terms of career progression. Granted McColl stepped up to Gloucs but never nailed down a regular place.

The days when Flockhart, Law and McColl were released were a different era. At that point the pro teams were petrified of 10 point losses turning into 20 point losses. It was all about damage limitation - for the national team too. They wouldn't take a risk on a player that could become twice the player that the incumbent was within a couple of seasons by putting up with the inevitable teething problems that come with developing players in the short to medium term.

I'd have picked Garry Law and Bryan Rennie in the centres back in those days. Those two were wasted. I mean jfc, Edinburgh were playing Southwell and MacRae in the centres on occasion when they were left to find their own ways.

The SRU & the pro clubs are more to blame for that IMO.

I have heard rumours that around 10-15 fringe/academy players are being signed to LS for next season.

No-one at LS is getting more than 1yr contracts. A number of senior players have left for LW and Ealing (Bright, Kwas, Josh).

A certain capital based full back was a possibility to come down until he put in some great performances and cemented his place in the squad.

Thankfully times have changed and are continuing to change. Not coincidental with McKie moving on and Dodson coming in. Also I wonder what influence the Muppet is having in relation to the development of the academy system and the drive that seems to be there to get both pro teams playing a similar style (all be it at polar ends of the competence spectrum)

My issue is whether we are able to catch up with the other nations bearing in mind that they continue to evolve as well. We still need a bigger player base from which to work and whilst the LS partnership helps in this regard the only real benefit will come from a third team being part if a Pro12+. As I recall when the new structure was establish Pro13 rugby was registered alongside Pro12.

I also feel that over the next few years there will be more and more pressure across world rugby for harmonisation of the global season. Assuming that 7s is a success at Rio, this pressure will only increase as the game develops outwith the traditional nations. If I was the Pro12, I would be looking to steal a march on the other NH leagues where possible in anticipation that at some point the Northern and Southern groups will need to harmonise. I would much prefer an alignment there, especially if we can have a league and international season that focuses on player welfare. It is especially pertinent when we have such a shallow pro player base.

I however don't expect any enlightened thinking from the SRU or Pro12 but I feel there is an opportunity to rethink how we are structured and lead the changes that I am sure will come.

sharvey44 wrote:I have heard rumours that around 10-15 fringe/academy players are being signed to LS for next season.

No-one at LS is getting more than 1yr contracts. A number of senior players have left for LW and Ealing (Bright, Kwas, Josh).

A certain capital based full back was a possibility to come down until he put in some great performances and cemented his place in the squad.

The beginning of the end? That's a terrible way to run a club. Things looked so bright for them a couple of years ago.

And if you are referring to Kinghorn then that is absolutely inept from Edinburgh yet again. That would be a backwards step in his development. How was that ever on the table?

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:The days when Flockhart, Law and McColl were released were a different era. At that point the pro teams were petrified of 10 point losses turning into 20 point losses. It was all about damage limitation - for the national team too. They wouldn't take a risk on a player that could become twice the player that the incumbent was within a couple of seasons by putting up with the inevitable teething problems that come with developing players in the short to medium term.

I'd have picked Garry Law and Bryan Rennie in the centres back in those days. Those two were wasted. I mean jfc, Edinburgh were playing Southwell and MacRae in the centres on occasion when they were left to find their own ways.

The SRU & the pro clubs are more to blame for that IMO.

Edinburgh has some pretty reasonable centre options at that time to be fair. A combination of Cairns, De Luca or Houston started nearly every league game that year at centre with Matt Dey in the mix as a back up. They maybe should have reacted better to losing Dewey and Di Rollo but at the time they were reasonably stable at centre for that season. Cairns and De Luca were seen as future stars and Houston and Dey solid pro's. Houston was newcomer of the year around then.

Rennie should have been picked up by Edinburgh or Glasgow, no doubt about it at the time.

Law had spent a fair bit of time on the between wing and centre, was same age as Cairns and IIRC wanted to play as a 10/12 rather than centre/wing. But squads were nowhere near as big back then. If the same happened now he would be picked up.

Not disputing that it was a different era, just echoing Baz's point that thus far, bar the odd player at clubs who are pushing for promotion, very few Scots make a step up after heading to the championship. And Fergusson has been released by Glasgow/the SRU not sent on loan like how he was previously and those HP mentioned.

Obviously the SRU/LS partnership should change that. Fergusson may be an interesting test case in that regard. The SRU also need to be careful not to piss off the LS fan base by sending academy players en mass.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

sharvey44 wrote:I have heard rumours that around 10-15 fringe/academy players are being signed to LS for next season.

No-one at LS is getting more than 1yr contracts. A number of senior players have left for LW and Ealing (Bright, Kwas, Josh).

A certain capital based full back was a possibility to come down until he put in some great performances and cemented his place in the squad.

The beginning of the end? That's a terrible way to run a club. Things looked so bright for them a couple of years ago.

And if you are referring to Kinghorn then that is absolutely inept from Edinburgh yet again. That would be a backwards step in his development. How was that ever on the table?

Last years play-off push was a stretch too far monetarily and LS would have been better off doing it this year, with hindsight. Coaches and coaching has been an issue this year which has been reflected in some pretty shocking results. It could be argued that the Champ is becoming more professional and certain clubs are getting substantial investment which makes it difficult for other clubs to keep up. Along with the constant fear of AP becoming ring-fenced means that LS have to look at alternatives (Pro12/13/14) and in order to get to that standard where entrance into the league is accepted they need to align more with the SRU and make use of the resources that GW and Ed have available, make use of the Academies. Provide SQ players with better game time than Ayr,Hawks, B'muir, etc. Training facilities have been in a joke the past. Next season they have the use of state of the art facilities. Historically its been perceived to be a better idea to spunk cash on a over the hill signing rather than ploughing it into facilities, marketing, promotion, all that guff. There's also the constant fight with Richmond and the RAA about money. LS see very little from the bar and food but obviously generate a lot more than Richmond.

Also on the fringes is the TV deal renegotiation in 2017 and the redevelopment of the RAG. Yes it seems like a terrible decision at first but bigger picture needs to be looked at.

Big D wrote:

hp18 wrote:Hasn't done Horne, Davidson, Hughes any harm.

Mini Horne, Davidson and Hughes aren't really comparable to Fergusson in this case IMO. The 1st 3 are loan deals specifically to get them game time, like when Edinburgh sent Rambo to Bristol.

Fergusson has been released and LS has picked him up. It may be that the new LS/SRU partnership means that this is a short term (year or 2) with a view to coming back up here but as Baz says very few young 'uns go down south to the Championship and do anything significant (in terms of making it at a bigger club or internationals).

Off the top of my head the likes of Garry Law, David Young, Harry Leonard, McColl, Flockhart and many others have at one point been contracted to a pro team (or the SRU) and let go to play in in the championship and have never really done any thing more in terms of career progression. Granted McColl stepped up to Gloucs but never nailed down a regular place.

Ah. I thought he meant Peter Horne. Like you say they're not comparable and Horne and Davidson haven't really made an impact yet.

Thread on the EMB about planned new deal with RFU for premiership clubs. Double the money potentially for access and appropriate rest for England players. Bigger incentives on bringing through EQ youngsters. Longer term agreement 8 years but with break clauses. Also more talk of ring fencing (rich that one). Probably changes to Championship with scrapping of the play off system with relegation promotion remaining at least for 16/17.

So maybe further widening of the gap between Prem and Championship will incentives further talk of potentially having LS and potentially LW in an expanded Pro12? I would live to see LS in such a set up if possible. Been debated before and yes there are complications but nothing ventured etched.

Croft_No.5 wrote:Thread on the EMB about planned new deal with RFU for premiership clubs. Double the money potentially for access and appropriate rest for England players. Bigger incentives on bringing through EQ youngsters. Longer term agreement 8 years but with break clauses. Also more talk of ring fencing (rich that one). Probably changes to Championship with scrapping of the play off system with relegation promotion remaining at least for 16/17.

So maybe further widening of the gap between Prem and Championship will incentives further talk of potentially having LS and potentially LW in an expanded Pro12? I would live to see LS in such a set up if possible. Been debated before and yes there are complications but nothing ventured etched.

With help from the SRU I'm sure LS could do a better job than the Italians after a couple of seasons. I'm not so sure about LW - Welsh club rugby is in a bit of a trough this season.

I would like to see LS in the pro12 but if thd SRU are to contribute any decent money I'd much rather it go to a new team here. Last weekend I was listening to radio borders and there was about 6 hours of club rugby on. I know it didnt work great last time but no one can tell me that if there was a club run as well as Glasgow down there it wouldnt get support

Cameo wrote:I would like to see LS in the pro12 but if thd SRU are to contribute any decent money I'd much rather it go to a new team here. Last weekend I was listening to radio borders and there was about 6 hours of club rugby on. I know it didnt work great last time but no one can tell me that if there was a club run as well as Glasgow down there it wouldnt get support

Nope sorry, Borders had their chance and there is still no evidence that they would back a pro side. Whilst they never had a competitive side in terms of challenging for the league they had a lot of Scotlands best young to mid 20's talent (Law, Cusiter, Brown, NDL, Rennie, Danielli, Grant etc) and a borders legend in Townsend and still got poor crowds.

Very few teams are run as well as Glasgow and it took a number of years to reach where they have been for the last few years.

The borders are at the rear of the queue for investment (in pro rugby terms) for me. Behind and reformation of the Caley Reds or if the budget isn't there then some funds towards LS.

If it were possible for LS/LI/LW to enter the PRO12 it introduces something a bit different to the competition, but I can't see it happening.

Former Scotland U20s prop Phil Cringle joins LS.

http://www.londonscottish.com/pro/news/ ... xo1R2f2aM8

Chunks Baws wrote:Former Scotland U20s prop Phil Cringle joins LS.

http://www.londonscottish.com/pro/news/ ... xo1R2f2aM8

I can't believe he is only 22 - it feels like I first heard the name years and years ago. Is there another Cringle?

Chris

Used to be a prop, lazy bastard would turn up once a year and then disappear again

Good with kids and animals.

Looks a bit like Richard atembourgh

whatisthejava wrote:Chris

Used to be a prop, lazy bastard would turn up once a year and then disappear again

Good with kids and animals.

Looks a bit like Richard atembourgh

I know I shouldn't but that gave me a laugh.

The lads are currently putting Moseley to the sword, 42-12 after 50 mins. Sounds like George Horne is playing well.

Moseley game finished 24-75. 11 tries by LS. Hat-tricks for Mark Bright and Jason Harries. Also a conversion for Brighty on his last game, which was met with cries of "arrogance" by the Moseley supporters

Good finish to a very average season. Felt for the Moseley fans for about 5 minutes until they started winging about sponsorship and "not having asset managers to back us"

Moseley by and large were very poor. Multiple kick-offs not making 10m, line-outs overthrown, dropped passes. They were unlucky in the scrum but by then the ref had pretty much given up on them.

Not surprising they are relegated. You cant compete in the Champ as amateurs, which Richmond will soon learn.

Sad to see so many of the squad being let go. Looks like next season will be very interesting. I think there are going to be some surprising announcements in the next couple of weeks.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Chunks Baws wrote:Former Scotland U20s prop Phil Cringle joins LS.

http://www.londonscottish.com/pro/news/ ... xo1R2f2aM8

I can't believe he is only 22 - it feels like I first heard the name years and years ago. Is there another Cringle?

I am sure there was a Pringle who played second row years ago.

sharvey44 wrote: Sad to see so many of the squad being let go. Looks like next season will be very interesting. I think there are going to be some surprising announcements in the next couple of weeks.

Signings or coach movement or other?

Big D wrote:

sharvey44 wrote: Sad to see so many of the squad being let go. Looks like next season will be very interesting. I think there are going to be some surprising announcements in the next couple of weeks.

Signings or coach movement or other?

Hopefully both. Currently only 7 players of the current squad have been re-signed. LS currently have 13 players signed for next season. The collective squad and fans don't want the current HC to stay. He has successfully alienated the entire squad and fans. The team selections have been renamed the Selection Tombola.

They ran in 11 tries on Saturday because they were playing for each other and in the knowledge that they weren't going to be chewed out today or dropped. Its a truly sad state of affairs.

To make matters worse they called the team yesterday and told them all that if they want to go to the EOS dinner then they'll all have to pay for their own tickets. Even though they had been told earlier in the season that they wouldn't have to. Probably because they haven't managed to sell enough tickets to the ordinary folk. A fairly disappointing end to a pretty sad season.

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Chunks Baws wrote:Former Scotland U20s prop Phil Cringle joins LS.

http://www.londonscottish.com/pro/news/ ... xo1R2f2aM8

I can't believe he is only 22 - it feels like I first heard the name years and years ago. Is there another Cringle?

I am sure there was a Pringle who played second row years ago.

Fergus if I remember correctly. Didn't he retire after a really bad injury?

switchskier wrote:

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:
I can't believe he is only 22 - it feels like I first heard the name years and years ago. Is there another Cringle?

I am sure there was a Pringle who played second row years ago.

Fergus if I remember correctly. Didn't he retire after a really bad injury?

I think so.

Fergus Pringle has been assistant coach at Currie. Mentioned in this article on the Currie website.

http://www.currierugby.org/seniors/arti ... ewsID=1014

Relevant as it mentions Ben Robbins as joining London Scottish.