RugbyRebels

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Are we sure he doesn’t know most of the team? Nailed on must include:
Mako
Hatley
Cole
Itoje
Billy
Youngs
Farrell
Daly/May/Watson

Add in the following as guaranteed squad players:
Marler
Genge
George
Launch
Lawes
Care
Ford
Joseph
Teo
Nowell
Brown

and it all seems very settled, even if you don’t agree with the selections.

I'm sticking with the positions aren't a given.

Mako is in a contest with Marler which wasn't the case 6 months ago

Hatley has retired though granted is a better option than Hartley

Cole wasn't close to a fans favourite when playing and is only drawing kinder reviews now he's not playing

Itoje is a given, but at 4 or 5

Billy is a given, and a given in a known shirt if fit

Youngs is performing to a standard that can't have him nailed down

Farrell looks a given, but at 10 or 12?

Daly, May and Watson, probably a given, but who in what shirt? And Eddie does like Nowell and Brown

So the actual number of known starters and known in what shirt is very, very low.

For me, if fit, we know 6 of the pack with a question mark of whether Itoje plays 4 or 5. I’ve added in Curry as clear first choice given Jones’s post tour comments. Mako maybe in comp with Marler but I’d say he’s clearly first choice. Sadly, the same at hooker. Cole may not be a fan favourite but he is a Jones favourite, and will be even moreso after this tour. That’s not a bad position to be in, even if some are of questionable quality, especially when lock is really a case off too many quality players to fit in to the squad. If Robshaw comes back to form next season you’d add him in as nailed on, too.
Youngs and Farrell are nailed on, sadly (again). Farrell may move to 10 but given he has been an ever present at 12, bar the Ireland match, it’s no more than speculation that he’ll move. I’d agree that the back three is up for grabs postionally wise but it’s pretty clear it’s between three test Lions and arguably the form winger in the world as to who takes those slots. I’d be happy to put some money on us seeing, injury permitting, 11.Daly 14.May 15.Watson for the AIs. Granted, this should’ve been sorted in 16/17 season.
That’s pretty settled given that some of the units/shirts up for grabs are between quality players rather than because of a paucity of quality/options.

Is it any worse than any other major nation, other than Ireland? New Zealand, for example, aren’t settled at 1, 6, 8 (if we’re saying Billy isn’t nailed on then we’d have to say the same of Read), 12, 13 and the back three, which is 3 from 4. Scott Barrett’s performances will also throw a cat amongst the pigeons at lock.

fivepointer wrote:we have 9 games plus 2/3 warm ups before the WC.
Ideally we should be playing our first choice XV in most of these games (with some rotation for japan, Italy and one of the warm ups)
i think we can probably identify 25 of the likely WC squad abut getting the pecking order right and filling in the final 6/7 places isnt straightforward.
I think there's quite a bit of sorting to do, but at least the tour has identified a few players who arent likely to feature.

fivepointer wrote:we have 9 games plus 2/3 warm ups before the WC.
Ideally we should be playing our first choice XV in most of these games (with some rotation for japan, Italy and one of the warm ups)
i think we can probably identify 25 of the likely WC squad abut getting the pecking order right and filling in the final 6/7 places isnt straightforward.
I think there's quite a bit of sorting to do, but at least the tour has identified a few players who arent likely to feature.

Stom wrote:

fivepointer wrote:we have 9 games plus 2/3 warm ups before the WC.
Ideally we should be playing our first choice XV in most of these games (with some rotation for japan, Italy and one of the warm ups)
i think we can probably identify 25 of the likely WC squad abut getting the pecking order right and filling in the final 6/7 places isnt straightforward.
I think there's quite a bit of sorting to do, but at least the tour has identified a few players who arent likely to feature.

I think we're closer to 30, tbh...

Mako, Marler
Hartley(injury permitting), George, LCD
Cole, Sinckler, Williams
Itoje, Lawes
Launch, Kruis
Robshaw, Shields
Curry, Underhill
Billy, Hughes
Youngs, Care
Ford, Farrell
Joseph, Te'o, Slade
May, Daly, Nowell, Watson, Brown

Oakboy wrote:

Stom wrote:

fivepointer wrote:we have 9 games plus 2/3 warm ups before the WC.
Ideally we should be playing our first choice XV in most of these games (with some rotation for japan, Italy and one of the warm ups)
i think we can probably identify 25 of the likely WC squad abut getting the pecking order right and filling in the final 6/7 places isnt straightforward.
I think there's quite a bit of sorting to do, but at least the tour has identified a few players who arent likely to feature.

I think we're closer to 30, tbh...

Mako, Marler
Hartley(injury permitting), George, LCD
Cole, Sinckler, Williams
Itoje, Lawes
Launch, Kruis
Robshaw, Shields
Curry, Underhill
Billy, Hughes
Youngs, Care
Ford, Farrell
Joseph, Te'o, Slade
May, Daly, Nowell, Watson, Brown

I think you could have the right of it, Stom, unfortunately. How many are in the upcoming RWC squads, 32?

Mellsblue wrote: For me, if fit, we know 6 of the pack with a question mark of whether Itoje plays 4 or 5. I’ve added in Curry as clear first choice given Jones’s post tour comments. Mako maybe in comp with Marler but I’d say he’s clearly first choice. Sadly, the same at hooker. Cole may not be a fan favourite but he is a Jones favourite, and will be even moreso after this tour. That’s not a bad position to be in, even if some are of questionable quality, especially when lock is really a case off too many quality players to fit in to the squad. If Robshaw comes back to form next season you’d add him in as nailed on, too.
Youngs and Farrell are nailed on, sadly (again). Farrell may move to 10 but given he has been an ever present at 12, bar the Ireland match, it’s no more than speculation that he’ll move. I’d agree that the back three is up for grabs postionally wise but it’s pretty clear it’s between three test Lions and arguably the form winger in the world as to who takes those slots. I’d be happy to put some money on us seeing, injury permitting, 11.Daly 14.May 15.Watson for the AIs. Granted, this should’ve been sorted in 16/17 season.
That’s pretty settled given that some of the units/shirts up for grabs are between quality players rather than because of a paucity of quality/options.

Is it any worse than any other major nation, other than Ireland? New Zealand, for example, aren’t settled at 1, 6, 8 (if we’re saying Billy isn’t nailed on then we’d have to say the same of Read), 12, 13 and the back three, which is 3 from 4. Scott Barrett’s performances will also throw a cat amongst the pigeons at lock.

fivepointer wrote: This is a good piece, reflecting many views on here. Worth looking at.

Raggs wrote:Whilst journos are still scoring Farrell 9/10 for the third test, I'm tempted to simply say they don't know what they're talking about (for the most part). Even the ones with credentials that should suggest otherwise.

Raggs wrote:Whilst journos are still scoring Farrell 9/10 for the third test, I'm tempted to simply say they don't know what they're talking about (for the most part). Even the ones with credentials that should suggest otherwise.

Peat wrote:

Raggs wrote:Whilst journos are still scoring Farrell 9/10 for the third test, I'm tempted to simply say they don't know what they're talking about (for the most part). Even the ones with credentials that should suggest otherwise.

That or they feel obliged to keep hyping him up in order to keep access to their sources.

Digby wrote:Farrell does apart from being a very good player himself really drive a team, and it's not just the organisation that comes with Ford but demanding the effort from others and putting in the effort himself. There's a lot to like about him, and he's probably our best points kicker too

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:Farrell does apart from being a very good player himself really drive a team, and it's not just the organisation that comes with Ford but demanding the effort from others and putting in the effort himself. There's a lot to like about him, and he's probably our best points kicker too

Can't argue with that, he's always working hard himself (albeit not always effectively), and you can constantly hear him yelling at players to get back on their feet, back in the game etc.

Oakboy wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:Farrell does apart from being a very good player himself really drive a team, and it's not just the organisation that comes with Ford but demanding the effort from others and putting in the effort himself. There's a lot to like about him, and he's probably our best points kicker too

Can't argue with that, he's always working hard himself (albeit not always effectively), and you can constantly hear him yelling at players to get back on their feet, back in the game etc.

That's the crunch. Yes, he's a good sergeant major. He can take some training motivators on to the pitch. Where he comes unstuck, because of or despite of coaching, is in the game directional leadership. Assuming that he gets in the XV on playing merit, he is a vice-captain at best. The team needs a general.

fivepointer wrote:Resistance is futile.
I'm now a convert.
Faz is the man based on his ability to shout at people, try really hard and slot the odd goal kick.

Mellsblue wrote:

Peat wrote:

Raggs wrote:Whilst journos are still scoring Farrell 9/10 for the third test, I'm tempted to simply say they don't know what they're talking about (for the most part). Even the ones with credentials that should suggest otherwise.

That or they feel obliged to keep hyping him up in order to keep access to their sources.

I had it down as group think but you could be right.
A couple of the times’ hacks were less complimentary than usual after the second and before the third test. Afterwards he was back to saving the world.