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Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:19 am
by Scrumhead
I would back Marchant to do well if selected, but if Tuilagi is fit enough, the 13 shirt is surely his.
To Lizard’s point, we can’t be complacent and need to respect Japan. However, as Puja said, most of us would regard the likes of Ford and Mercer to be upgrades on Eddie’s favourites.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:29 am
by Mellsblue
Times reporting that Tuilagi is unlikely to be fit.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:57 am
by Scrumhead
Ha - what a surprise
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:58 am
by twitchy
That's a huge shame. I don't think I would want to play vs the aussies. Maybe the training camp was good for him anyway though.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:09 am
by fivepointer
Japans last 8 results Nov 2017-Nov 2018
Australia L 30-63
Tonga W 39-6
France D 23-23
Italy W 34-14
Italy L 22-25
Georgia W 28-0
NZ L 31-69
A couple of tonkings but a couple of decent results.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:34 am
by twitchy
That is a brilliant draw vs france. I feel I have no idea what their team is like? They must have a decent pack to draw with the french?
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:39 am
by Puja
twitchy wrote:That is a brilliant draw vs france. I feel I have no idea what their team is like? They must have a decent pack to draw with the french?
While it was an excellent result and they deserved it, that was in the last days of the Noves regime.
They're a solid team - not huge in the pack, but work around it, very fleet in the backs and look to get round the corner a lot. I'd rank them very much on a par with Italy, so a banana skin, but not one we should be slipping on.
Puja
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:40 am
by Mikey Brown
WaspInWales wrote:Would a stellar performance from the backs, or anyone against Japan be likely to result in a change for the Australia test?
What if Loz and Slade/Tuilagi start and have absolute stormers? Every pass, and offload sticks and they have the same psychic link that we were told Ford and Farrell had. I'm sure we'd still see Farrell start at 10 and end at 12 against the Aussies...and if Ford starts, Farrell will start 12 and finish at 10.
I'm expecting Eddie to start Wigglesworth again Japan anyway so expectation is already fairly low.
Yeah, I’m struggling to picture anything at all that could come out of this game unless we play a first team and lose. Or somebody gets injured...
I think I have a
cunning plan.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:55 am
by p/d
Put our best XV out ...................... whatever the f**k that is.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:14 am
by Oakboy
p/d wrote:Put our best XV out ...................... whatever the f**k that is.
A call-up for Cips, then!
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:24 am
by p/d
Oakboy wrote:p/d wrote:Put our best XV out ...................... whatever the f**k that is.
A call-up for Cips, then!
I wish.... and Lozowski & LCD. I'm resigned to the fact our back line is going to be built around Farrell so cannot get too excited about options at 12 and 13.
That said as Jones is taking us to the WC then it is his best XV that needs to take to the field. No pissing about, only injury forced changes for next 2 games.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:52 am
by Which Tyler
Never want more than 1 change per unit; and at least one unit unchanged (starting benchers doesn't really count).
Moon, George, Williams
Lawes, Ewels
Wilson, Underhill, Mercer
Youngs, Ford
Te'o, Slade
May, Cockanasiga, Daly
Taylor, Hepburn, Sinckler, Itoje, Shields
Care/Vellacot, Tuilagi/Lozowski, Nowell
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:27 pm
by Scrumhead
p/d wrote:Oakboy wrote:p/d wrote:Put our best XV out ...................... whatever the f**k that is.
A call-up for Cips, then!
I wish.... and Lozowski & LCD. I'm resigned to the fact our back line is going to be built around Farrell so cannot get too excited about options at 12 and 13.
That said as Jones is taking us to the WC then it is his best XV that needs to take to the field. No pissing about, only injury forced changes for next 2 games.
Giving vital experience to the likes of Mercer is not ‘pissing about’.
Similarly, Cokanasiga offers something different to our other wingers. Right now, he’s lacking in experience, but he could be a very good option in 12 months time. Worth blooding him now IMO.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:36 pm
by Oakboy
Underhill, Wilson and Mercer is the back row I want to see. It also makes sense, unfortunately, to have Rhodes on the bench. Otherwise, why have him in the squad?
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:49 pm
by Scrumhead
And the more I think about it ... a better definition of ‘pissing about’ is persisting with players who aren’t performing or tactics that aren’t working.
Of the team I suggested in the OP, there was only one debutant (Joe Cokanasiga). The rest were players who either warrant a better look like Mercer or Lozwoski or, in Daly’s case, build experience in a new position.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:10 am
by Beasties
There are only two players I want to see against Japan, Mercer and Cockasaniga. Do I believe Eddie will pick them? I'm certainly not going down to Ladbrokes put it that way. I couldn't give a toss about the rest of the team but I fear Eddie will use this game as an opportunity to get 9 or 10 locks onto the pitch in order to batter Japan into submission, you can never have too many locks. Then the opportunity to try something else will have gone and we'll trundle on further down the road.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:35 am
by Oakboy
What is the purpose of this fixture other than money-making? Is it a full-on test for the best XV, is it a chance to experiment, is it a chance to rest players, is it a chance to polish the system or try something new?
Who knows? The very worst scenario is somebody important getting injured, I suppose.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:45 am
by Puja
Oakboy wrote:What is the purpose of this fixture other than money-making? Is it a full-on test for the best XV, is it a chance to experiment, is it a chance to rest players, is it a chance to polish the system or try something new?
Who knows? The very worst scenario is somebody important getting injured, I suppose.
It is part of our pledge to host a Tier 2 nation each autumn window and do our bit to develop world rugby. It may not be hugely important to England's development, but it's going to be massive for Japan, so I'm in favour of it.
Puja
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:12 am
by twitchy
Looking at japan's results this a serious fixture and should be treated as such. This close the world cup we need every opportunity to work on our game.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:25 am
by Stom
twitchy wrote:Looking at japan's results this a serious fixture and should be treated as such. This close the world cup we need every opportunity to work on our game.
Sure. But we also need to look at alternatives. So 3-4 changes is necessary. But limit them slightly. I'd bring in a lock, probably Lawes, for Itoje, Ford for Farrell and Mercer for Shields.
You don't want to disrupt more than that. And then I'd do the same for Aus. Out go Lawes, Te'o and Slade and in come Itoje, Farrell and Tuilagi.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:27 am
by p/d
Stom wrote:twitchy wrote:Looking at japan's results this a serious fixture and should be treated as such. This close the world cup we need every opportunity to work on our game.
Sure. But we also need to look at alternatives. So 3-4 changes is necessary. But limit them slightly. I'd bring in a lock, probably Lawes, for Itoje, Ford for Farrell and Mercer for Shields.
You don't want to disrupt more than that. And then I'd do the same for Aus. Out go Lawes, Te'o and Slade and in come Itoje, Farrell and Tuilagi.
So you would revert back to the Ford/Farrell axis for Aus?
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:30 am
by twitchy
Stom wrote:twitchy wrote:Looking at japan's results this a serious fixture and should be treated as such. This close the world cup we need every opportunity to work on our game.
Sure. But we also need to look at alternatives. So 3-4 changes is necessary. But limit them slightly. I'd bring in a lock, probably Lawes, for Itoje, Ford for Farrell and Mercer for Shields.
You don't want to disrupt more than that. And then I'd do the same for Aus. Out go Lawes, Te'o and Slade and in come Itoje, Farrell and Tuilagi.
I agree but that is still us taking the fixture seriously. Given how japan play that sounds like sensible changes anyway.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:16 am
by Oakboy
Has Tuilagi not been ruled out of the AIs with his groin strain? I thought I had read that.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:22 am
by Stom
p/d wrote:Stom wrote:twitchy wrote:Looking at japan's results this a serious fixture and should be treated as such. This close the world cup we need every opportunity to work on our game.
Sure. But we also need to look at alternatives. So 3-4 changes is necessary. But limit them slightly. I'd bring in a lock, probably Lawes, for Itoje, Ford for Farrell and Mercer for Shields.
You don't want to disrupt more than that. And then I'd do the same for Aus. Out go Lawes, Te'o and Slade and in come Itoje, Farrell and Tuilagi.
So you would revert back to the Ford/Farrell axis for Aus?
Absolutely. If that's what it takes to get Ford on the pitch under Jones, I have to live with it. We need to be better in attack.
Re: Team for Japan
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:25 am
by Oakboy
Puja wrote:Oakboy wrote:What is the purpose of this fixture other than money-making? Is it a full-on test for the best XV, is it a chance to experiment, is it a chance to rest players, is it a chance to polish the system or try something new?
Who knows? The very worst scenario is somebody important getting injured, I suppose.
It is part of our pledge to host a Tier 2 nation each autumn window and do our bit to develop world rugby. It may not be hugely important to England's development, but it's going to be massive for Japan, so I'm in favour of it.
Puja
Oh, I get that and approve but are we going to be criticised for making 10/12 changes or is there any sort of declared purpose/commitment. Overall, if it does not offend anything/anybody, I can see a case for playing all squad members who will not feature in the other three matches. I can also see a case for being ruthless. This is effectively the last match before the RWC that does not matter, arguably.