RugbyRebels

Raggs wrote:

Puja wrote:

Raggs wrote:
I still suspect his balance had a lot to do with kicking his leg out. His hips are in front of his body, he's already leaning backwards and trying to put his foot down. Natural reaction is to straighten the bent leg.

That strikes me as the opposite of the natural reaction. If you're falling backwards, kicking your leg out forwards would accelerate your tip, would it not?

Puja

Again, stand on one foot with your knee up, and lean back. What does your body do to try and compensate?

I flailed around a bit and fell over. Granted, I am not an elite athlete, but what did not happen was my foot shooting out like a piston to kick away from me.

I'm not sure I'm offering the best trial as I'm thinking too much about it and that's colouring my (otherwise highly scientific) research. However, I'm not sure how kicking out in the opposite direction to the way you're falling will rebalance you - surely that would make things worse?

Puja

It's more you tense your core, to bring your torso forwards, you'll want something going in the opposite direction, which will be the leg coming round the pivot point of your hips.

FWIW I think you're right about the natural reaction bit Raggs, given he's rotating slightly in mid air. BUT it looked terrible and he was always gonna get a red for that given the current focus on preventing head injuries above any mitigating circumstances. I do have a litle sympathy for Odugwu for the incident itself but not for his reaction.

Beasties wrote:FWIW I think you're right about the natural reaction bit Raggs, given he's rotating slightly in mid air. BUT it looked terrible and he was always gonna get a red for that given the current focus on preventing head injuries above any mitigating circumstances. I do have a litle sympathy for Odugwu for the incident itself but not for his reaction.

I absolutely agree it's a red, and I never like to see a player laugh etc. But I can imagine he's a bit shocked, and people react oddly. He's a kid, he's going to be embarassed about it, and a bit shocked that it happened, along with all the aggro from the crowd and it's a tough situation. He'll grow hopefully.

Raggs wrote:

Beasties wrote:FWIW I think you're right about the natural reaction bit Raggs, given he's rotating slightly in mid air. BUT it looked terrible and he was always gonna get a red for that given the current focus on preventing head injuries above any mitigating circumstances. I do have a litle sympathy for Odugwu for the incident itself but not for his reaction.

I absolutely agree it's a red, and I never like to see a player laugh etc. But I can imagine he's a bit shocked, and people react oddly. He's a kid, he's going to be embarassed about it, and a bit shocked that it happened, along with all the aggro from the crowd and it's a tough situation. He'll grow hopefully.

It worries me that, for a kid with so much talent, he's already onto his third club and the previous two both released him despite him doing well on the pitch.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Beasties wrote:FWIW I think you're right about the natural reaction bit Raggs, given he's rotating slightly in mid air. BUT it looked terrible and he was always gonna get a red for that given the current focus on preventing head injuries above any mitigating circumstances. I do have a litle sympathy for Odugwu for the incident itself but not for his reaction.

I absolutely agree it's a red, and I never like to see a player laugh etc. But I can imagine he's a bit shocked, and people react oddly. He's a kid, he's going to be embarassed about it, and a bit shocked that it happened, along with all the aggro from the crowd and it's a tough situation. He'll grow hopefully.

It worries me that, for a kid with so much talent, he's already onto his third club and the previous two both released him despite him doing well on the pitch.

Puja

Story was a few of the leicester tigers kids did something a bit silly, hence them releasing a handful at once. Then Diamond can be a bit of a marmite guy, and Odogwu wasn't playing that much by the end was he?

Raggs wrote:

Puja wrote:

Raggs wrote:
I absolutely agree it's a red, and I never like to see a player laugh etc. But I can imagine he's a bit shocked, and people react oddly. He's a kid, he's going to be embarassed about it, and a bit shocked that it happened, along with all the aggro from the crowd and it's a tough situation. He'll grow hopefully.

It worries me that, for a kid with so much talent, he's already onto his third club and the previous two both released him despite him doing well on the pitch.

Puja

Story was a few of the leicester tigers kids did something a bit silly, hence them releasing a handful at once. Then Diamond can be a bit of a marmite guy, and Odogwu wasn't playing that much by the end was he?

He wasn't, although I'd be inclined to question how he ended up in the situation where he was being loaned out to Sale FC, somewhere grossly beneath his level of talent. You could be absolutely right that none of it was a problem with his attitude and it was just a bad run of luck. It's just worrying, cause he has a lot of talent and so far doesn't seem to have leveraged it.

Puja

Puja wrote:He wasn't, although I'd be inclined to question how he ended up in the situation where he was being loaned out to Sale FC, somewhere grossly beneath his level of talent. You could be absolutely right that none of it was a problem with his attitude and it was just a bad run of luck. It's just worrying, cause he has a lot of talent and so far doesn't seem to have leveraged it.

Puja

I'd forgot about that. He doe seem fairly outspoken, could well have clashed with Dimes. May have felt he should be working differently, when he came to Wasps he said that at Sale he was told to not put on any more weight, whereas at Wasps they were happy for him to hit the gym (which seems to be what he wanted to do).

Adam_P wrote:What did he apologise for? The foul, laughing in the refs face, ironically applauding the decision or pulling faces at the crowd?

All of it, actually. Which he should have done, as it was all grade-A twat material

Peej wrote:

Adam_P wrote:What did he apologise for? The foul, laughing in the refs face, ironically applauding the decision or pulling faces at the crowd?

All of it, actually. Which he should have done, as it was all grade-A twat material

Good to hear, I knew he'd apologised to Sale and the player, I was waiting to hear he'd apologised to the ref too

Digby wrote:

Peej wrote:

Adam_P wrote:What did he apologise for? The foul, laughing in the refs face, ironically applauding the decision or pulling faces at the crowd?

All of it, actually. Which he should have done, as it was all grade-A twat material

Good to hear, I knew he'd apologised to Sale and the player, I was waiting to hear he'd apologised to the ref too

Was he apologising for the sake of balance?

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Peej wrote:
All of it, actually. Which he should have done, as it was all grade-A twat material

Good to hear, I knew he'd apologised to Sale and the player, I was waiting to hear he'd apologised to the ref too

Was he apologising for the sake of balance?

I don't get that impression, he'd kick your teeth in for balance, but not apologise

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
Good to hear, I knew he'd apologised to Sale and the player, I was waiting to hear he'd apologised to the ref too

Was he apologising for the sake of balance?

I don't get that impression, he'd kick your teeth in for balance, but not apologise

well quite...

Six week ban for Odogwu, which seems a bit harsh actually

Peej wrote:Six week ban for Odogwu, which seems a bit harsh actually

If it's a 4 week ban for accidentally clotheslining someone in the face, I've got no issues with it being 6 weeks for accidentally kung fu kicking them. The dissent probably lost him any discounts he could have had as well.

Puja

6 weeks, down from 12. Classed as high end entry. They didn't believe he was doing it for balance, and didn't like his attitude after.

No problem if you don't believe it was balance, starting at 12 weeks. But it does make a mockery of some of the mid/low entry offences we've seen. Like Quill against Farrell.

I think you're right about the body's instinctive reaction to rotating backwards Raggs. Instinctively the body tries to pull the head forward out of the danger of hitting the head on the ground, the leg lifting compensates that movement, all done much quicker than any involvement of an actual mental decision process. I'm a little disappointed if they're refused that outright as a reason for the leg coming up. Having said that, 6 weeks seems about right given his reaction.

I'm sure his very poor reaction added an extra week or two to the ban.

It added 6 weeks to the ban on one sense. Made it high end so starting point of 12 weeks. His subsequent apology and clean record brought it down to 6.

I look at that vs quill or lavinini and it's upsetting.

Contrast also with Brew, who elbowed a player in the head and got 3 weeks.

Beasties wrote:I think you're right about the body's instinctive reaction to rotating backwards Raggs. Instinctively the body tries to pull the head forward out of the danger of hitting the head on the ground, the leg lifting compensates that movement, all done much quicker than any involvement of an actual mental decision process. I'm a little disappointed if they're refused that outright as a reason for the leg coming up. Having said that, 6 weeks seems about right given his reaction.

My issue is that it isn't an uncontrolled flail - his leg doesn't come up, it goes out. To me, it looks like a warding off action, like a foot-based hand-off.

I think 12 weeks was a bit harsh as an entry point though. It wasn't delivered with significant force (it was a f*ck-off motion rather than a kick to damage) and the fact that contact was made with the head was clearly bad luck rather than deliberate aim. On the other hand, I'm amazed he got mitigation - his reaction is clearly bringing the game into disrepute, especially in a televised match, and a post-match apology doesn't make it better. I would have given an entry point of 6 weeks, with no mitigation.

Basically, right result, wrong process to get there. But I guess that's at least one better than most citing procedures, so what the hell.

Puja

6 weeks is bang on. Shouldn’t be deemed otherwise just because the likes of Brew only got 3

My issue is consistency. No problem with that being 6 weeks if you don't believe the foot came out for balance. However, I then want to see 6 weeks for Quill, 9 weeks for Lavanini, and 12 weeks for Vahamani (sp?), as opposed to the 3,3 and 6 they got respectively.

Without any consistency, then I don't see how you can say it's a right result.

There was no need to straighten I don't see how your body needs to straighten the leg to balance it.
Otherwise why isn't it a more common thing to happen in a game?

it also means you are landing on one foot which is also against your body instincts.

Not sure why Odogwu's incident should be deemed less than Lavanini high tackle.

Raggs wrote:
Without any consistency, then I don't see how you can say it's a right result.

I think it is the right result, not ‘a right result ... I’m not ‘Arry Redknapp!!!