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Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:45 pm
by Len
Petrol is king.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:57 pm
by Sandydragon
Tesla 3 is advertised for $35K which is getting close to a reasonable value for a new car. But range is only 215 miles. That's fine for around town, but not so good for longer distance. If they can get the range up to that of an average diesel car then it becomes a valid option, either that or radically reduce recharge times, which I'm not sure is possible.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:24 pm
by Lizard
215 miles is plenty, really. I would drive further than that in one go maybe once a year, if that.

How long does it take to charge a Tesla 3?

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:11 am
by UGagain
I just drove 670 odd kms today. I'd have to tow a diesel generator.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:28 am
by onlynameleft
Lizard wrote:215 miles is plenty, really. I would drive further than that in one go maybe once a year, if that.

How long does it take to charge a Tesla 3?
37 hours from a standard socket. From a super fast charging socket which you can buy or there are a few dotted around it takes 4.5 hours. So if you never do more than 150 miles a day (215 is the equivalent of a petrol car manufacturers' figure and almost certainly unachievable in real life) it's an option. For the rest of us it isn't.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:51 am
by onlynameleft
Sandydragon wrote:Tesla 3 is advertised for $35K which is getting close to a reasonable value for a new car. But range is only 215 miles. That's fine for around town, but not so good for longer distance. If they can get the range up to that of an average diesel car then it becomes a valid option, either that or radically reduce recharge times, which I'm not sure is possible.
Maybe this is in the states but the cheapest Tesla 3 is £59K in the UK including the government's £5K incentive.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:09 am
by Sandydragon
Lizard wrote:215 miles is plenty, really. I would drive further than that in one go maybe once a year, if that.

How long does it take to charge a Tesla 3?
My wife would probably agree. I can very routinely drive well past that in a single day. I would explore a hybrid solution for my next car, but going completely electric is a non-starter for me, or anyone else who does significant mileage.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:12 am
by Sandydragon
onlynameleft wrote:
Lizard wrote:215 miles is plenty, really. I would drive further than that in one go maybe once a year, if that.

How long does it take to charge a Tesla 3?
37 hours from a standard socket. From a super fast charging socket which you can buy or there are a few dotted around it takes 4.5 hours. So if you never do more than 150 miles a day (215 is the equivalent of a petrol car manufacturers' figure and almost certainly unachievable in real life) it's an option. For the rest of us it isn't.
That's not great. 4.5 hours at a service station, assuming that the charger is super fast and available, is just misery. I can see a solution for short distance drivers around towns, but anyone who drives long distance cant rely on electric, which is why even considering banning diesel and petrol is 10 years is plain stupid.

I'm assuming that refilling a hydrogen car would be much quicker - anyone know?

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:45 am
by onlynameleft
Sandydragon wrote:
onlynameleft wrote:
Lizard wrote:215 miles is plenty, really. I would drive further than that in one go maybe once a year, if that.

How long does it take to charge a Tesla 3?
37 hours from a standard socket. From a super fast charging socket which you can buy or there are a few dotted around it takes 4.5 hours. So if you never do more than 150 miles a day (215 is the equivalent of a petrol car manufacturers' figure and almost certainly unachievable in real life) it's an option. For the rest of us it isn't.
That's not great. 4.5 hours at a service station, assuming that the charger is super fast and available, is just misery. I can see a solution for short distance drivers around towns, but anyone who drives long distance cant rely on electric, which is why even considering banning diesel and petrol is 10 years is plain stupid.

I'm assuming that refilling a hydrogen car would be much quicker - anyone know?
No longer than filling with diesel. The issue is there are only 8 filling stations in uk to date and none north of Sheffield. But that should change. It's a better long term bet imho.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:51 am
by Sandydragon
onlynameleft wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:
onlynameleft wrote:
37 hours from a standard socket. From a super fast charging socket which you can buy or there are a few dotted around it takes 4.5 hours. So if you never do more than 150 miles a day (215 is the equivalent of a petrol car manufacturers' figure and almost certainly unachievable in real life) it's an option. For the rest of us it isn't.
That's not great. 4.5 hours at a service station, assuming that the charger is super fast and available, is just misery. I can see a solution for short distance drivers around towns, but anyone who drives long distance cant rely on electric, which is why even considering banning diesel and petrol is 10 years is plain stupid.

I'm assuming that refilling a hydrogen car would be much quicker - anyone know?
No longer than filling with diesel. The issue is there are only 8 filling stations in uk to date and none north of Sheffield. But that should change. It's a better long term bet imho.
Cheers, that fits my assumption. The refill time alone must make hydrogen a more realistic bet for the long term. Realistically, if a hydrogen car with reasonable range and price becomes available, then the infrastructure will follow, particularly if the industry supplying hydrogen knows that it will become the main game in town in a decade or so. It would probably take 5-10 years to make the infrastructure changes.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:30 pm
by Donny osmond
Isn't the average car journey in the uk something like 2 miles? Do a couple of them a day and top up the battery on an overnight charge, you're laughing. Fair enough longer journeys/days you need something more, but there are literally millions of short journeys made every day that are suited to an electric vehicle.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:04 pm
by Stones of granite
Donny osmond wrote:Isn't the average car journey in the uk something like 2 miles? Do a couple of them a day and top up the battery on an overnight charge, you're laughing. Fair enough longer journeys/days you need something more, but there are literally millions of short journeys made every day that are suited to an electric vehicle.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
It's 7 miles, and it's an entirely useless metric, unless you're suggesting that people have two cars - one for their "average" trips and one for their long trips.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:15 pm
by Zhivago
Stones of granite wrote:
Donny osmond wrote:Isn't the average car journey in the uk something like 2 miles? Do a couple of them a day and top up the battery on an overnight charge, you're laughing. Fair enough longer journeys/days you need something more, but there are literally millions of short journeys made every day that are suited to an electric vehicle.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
It's 7 miles, and it's an entirely useless metric, unless you're suggesting that people have two cars - one for their "average" trips and one for their long trips.
Many families have two cars, and I bet only one of them gets used for longer trips (like to Gatwick or to see family)

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:18 pm
by morepork
I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:26 pm
by Zhivago
morepork wrote:I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius.
Could be a thread of its own!

e.g.
Image

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:07 pm
by Stones of granite
Zhivago wrote:
Stones of granite wrote:
Donny osmond wrote:Isn't the average car journey in the uk something like 2 miles? Do a couple of them a day and top up the battery on an overnight charge, you're laughing. Fair enough longer journeys/days you need something more, but there are literally millions of short journeys made every day that are suited to an electric vehicle.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
It's 7 miles, and it's an entirely useless metric, unless you're suggesting that people have two cars - one for their "average" trips and one for their long trips.
Many families have two cars, and I bet only one of them gets used for longer trips (like to Gatwick or to see family)
...and many families don't. What's your point?

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:30 pm
by Len
morepork wrote:I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius.
Hilux. Has to be.

Re: RE: Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:13 am
by canta_brian
Len wrote:
morepork wrote:I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius.
Hilux. Has to be.
Ah, the automotive equivalent of a cockroach! Must dig out that barry crump ad from the you tube

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:20 am
by cashead
morepork wrote:I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius.
Hammy, please change name of thread to "I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius."

Re: RE: Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:46 pm
by Len
canta_brian wrote:
Len wrote:
morepork wrote:I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius.
Hilux. Has to be.
Ah, the automotive equivalent of a cockroach! Must dig out that barry crump ad from the you tube
Going to go look at one on Thursday.

Re: RE: Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:40 am
by morepork
Len wrote:
canta_brian wrote:
Len wrote:
Hilux. Has to be.
Ah, the automotive equivalent of a cockroach! Must dig out that barry crump ad from the you tube
Going to go look at one on Thursday.

Did you get it? Could you nail a Hokitika New World check out girl on the tray without being slashed by rust in the most delicate of places?

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars or I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:41 am
by morepork
Hey Hey. New Fred title.

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars or I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:17 am
by Zhivago
morepork wrote:Hey Hey. New Fred title.
What can I say... I'm a fan of your work

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars or I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:53 pm
by Dacre
The problem with Electric cars is the recharging infrastructure. Electric cars make most sense in highly populated urban areas where mileages per day are low. But most of the people who live in these areas don't have a drive, garage or parking space to charge their cars overnight. Where I live in West London there are probably 30 cars parked on the street for every 1 car parked on a drive.

Until there are under roadsurface chargers that will charge cars as they drive along, electric will be let down by charging infrastructure

SandyDragon's times for Tesla superchargers is incorrect - much quicker than 4.5 hours

See the link http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/20 ... harge.html

Re: Ban Petrol and Diesel Cars or I will not face the apocalypse in a Prius

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:25 pm
by bruce
Dacre wrote:The problem with Electric cars is the recharging infrastructure. Electric cars make most sense in highly populated urban areas where mileages per day are low. But most of the people who live in these areas don't have a drive, garage or parking space to charge their cars overnight. Where I live in West London there are probably 30 cars parked on the street for every 1 car parked on a drive.

Until there are under roadsurface chargers that will charge cars as they drive along, electric will be let down by charging infrastructure

SandyDragon's times for Tesla superchargers is incorrect - much quicker than 4.5 hours

See the link http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/20 ... harge.html
So best case it takes an hour to charge 80 odd percent of the battery, and that is if there isn't anyone else charging nearby. I agree regarding the infrastructure, living in the westcountry I don't think I've ever seen an electric charging unit at a petrol station or anywhere else, which effectively makes these cars next to feckin' useless.