Page 2 of 2
Re: How to re-integrate Sam Simmonds into England back row?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:53 pm
by Spiffy
Scrumhead wrote:Mikey Brown wrote:This feels like the beginnings of an epic 35 page argument.
I'd say the 8 role is the most versatile on the pitch. Do Read or Faletau get these question marks over their heads because they stand out in the wide pods on phase play. When does a role like theirs stop being a "proper backrow style"?
I appreciate 8s can be used in different ways, but Read or Faletau popping up in a wide channel on phase play doesn’t mean they’re absolved of their other responsibilities.
Simmonds is only a forward for the set piece, beyond that, he’s pretty much excused of anything to do with the ruck/breakdown.That’s when he stops being an 8 and becomes something different.
I literally posted a whole article where Rob Baxter talks about how they developed a system for Simmonds and another where Ali Helpher talks about him being an ‘eighth back’. I’m not making it up.
Simmonds scores most of his many tries from short range ruck or maul situations, so he is certainly involved at the breakdown.
Re: How to re-integrate Sam Simmonds into England back row?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:12 pm
by Scrumhead
Perhaps I should have been more specific. I was referring to defensive breakdowns and general breakdown work I would expect to see from a back row player (irrespective of number).
Even in attack, he doesn’t do much clear out work, he just carries from close range.
Re: How to re-integrate Sam Simmonds into England back row?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:55 pm
by Mikey Brown
Scrumhead wrote:Perhaps I should have been more specific. I was referring to defensive breakdowns and general breakdown work I would expect to see from a back row player (irrespective of number).
Even in attack, he doesn’t do much clear out work, he just carries from close range.
Don’t read this as me just disagreeing for the sake of it, but I’m genuinely curious how many attacking rucks EJ wants Billy hitting in an ideal world.
On that note it would be very interesting, if he is to get a chance at 8 this summer, how much someone like Dombrandt is given the freedom to just chase the ball a bit.
Re: How to re-integrate Sam Simmonds into England back row?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:29 pm
by Raggs
I really hope Simmonds gets a good shot for the Lions. Not just dirt tracking. Though even dirt tracking could be interesting, as it could well be a different role.
Re: How to re-integrate Sam Simmonds into England back row?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:40 pm
by Puja
Raggs wrote:I really hope Simmonds gets a good shot for the Lions. Not just dirt tracking. Though even dirt tracking could be interesting, as it could well be a different role.
Ditto. It's a win-win for us if he does - we either get evidence that he can hack it and thrive outside the Exeter system in top-level internationals or we get evidence that he can't, all without having to try the experiment in England games.
Puja
Re: How to re-integrate Sam Simmonds into England back row?
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:47 pm
by Scrumhead
Me too. In fact, I think we’re all keen to see that happen.