RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:49 pm As an aside, and my law ignorance may be showing here, but for the 1st Racing try, the 9 picked the ball up in the middle of a ruck- there were bound players behind where he picked up, so it wasn’t out. Isn’t that handling in the ruck?

Wouldn't all caterpillar/box kick setups be offside in the same manner (not that I'd be opposed to anything that stops them) or is it about the back foot of the 9?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:01 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:49 pm As an aside, and my law ignorance may be showing here, but for the 1st Racing try, the 9 picked the ball up in the middle of a ruck- there were bound players behind where he picked up, so it wasn’t out. Isn’t that handling in the ruck?

Wouldn't all caterpillar/box kick setups be offside in the same manner (not that I'd be opposed to anything that stops them) or is it about the back foot of the 9?

9 rolls it back with their foot to the caterpillar back foot then lifts ?

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:09 pm Really poor from Barbeary. 2 red card offences in the same game must be some kind of record. He's got to get a multi week ban you would have thought. Pity as he did play a big part in the Bath comeback.

To be fair the second one is a fraction of a second reaction time to fend. It is yellow, but saying it is really poor is wrong. After multi views all officials deemed both yellows.,

And why would you get a multi week ban for two yellows? Straight red yeah, but it is simply two yellows. That’s punishment done on the pitch!

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:15 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:09 pm Really poor from Barbeary. 2 red card offences in the same game must be some kind of record. He's got to get a multi week ban you would have thought. Pity as he did play a big part in the Bath comeback.

To be fair the second one is a fraction of a second reaction time to fend. It is yellow, but saying it is really poor is wrong. After multi views all officials deemed both yellows.,

And why would you get a multi week ban for two yellows? Straight red yeah, but it is simply two yellows. That’s punishment done on the pitch!

can the first now be upgraded- as it should.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:10 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:01 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:49 pm As an aside, and my law ignorance may be showing here, but for the 1st Racing try, the 9 picked the ball up in the middle of a ruck- there were bound players behind where he picked up, so it wasn’t out. Isn’t that handling in the ruck?

Wouldn't all caterpillar/box kick setups be offside in the same manner (not that I'd be opposed to anything that stops them) or is it about the back foot of the 9?

9 rolls it back with their foot to the caterpillar back foot then lifts ?

Yeah. Clearly I was struggling to understand the word "handling" there for some reason. It's all so boring either way though.

Interesting point on Barbeary if that's deemed a straight red before receiving the second yellow.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:27 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:15 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:09 pm Really poor from Barbeary. 2 red card offences in the same game must be some kind of record. He's got to get a multi week ban you would have thought. Pity as he did play a big part in the Bath comeback.

To be fair the second one is a fraction of a second reaction time to fend. It is yellow, but saying it is really poor is wrong. After multi views all officials deemed both yellows.,

And why would you get a multi week ban for two yellows? Straight red yeah, but it is simply two yellows. That’s punishment done on the pitch!

can the first now be upgraded- as it should.

Why should it?

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:55 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:27 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:15 pm

To be fair the second one is a fraction of a second reaction time to fend. It is yellow, but saying it is really poor is wrong. After multi views all officials deemed both yellows.,

And why would you get a multi week ban for two yellows? Straight red yeah, but it is simply two yellows. That’s punishment done on the pitch!

can the first now be upgraded- as it should.

Why should it?

Not the question. Do the laws allow it?

Yellows can be upgraded post game.

So yes. It's a possibility

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:15 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:09 pm Really poor from Barbeary. 2 red card offences in the same game must be some kind of record. He's got to get a multi week ban you would have thought. Pity as he did play a big part in the Bath comeback.

To be fair the second one is a fraction of a second reaction time to fend. It is yellow, but saying it is really poor is wrong. After multi views all officials deemed both yellows.,

And why would you get a multi week ban for two yellows? Straight red yeah, but it is simply two yellows. That’s punishment done on the pitch!

On the second one, he needs to train himself out of leading with a forearm. He was unlucky in that the dynamics changed on him (and it's definitely just a yellow), but he shouldn't be doing handoffs with a forearm bar and clenched fist anyway.

The first one was a straight red that wasn't given for some reason. Very lucky to escape on the pitch and he'll have to be lucky to escape in the disciplinary court as well.

Puja

Leading with the forearm like that is just poor technique. The closed fist element just means you've got no hope of ever arguing it's any sort of hand off. He's a young guy and a rough diamond the Bath coaches need to keep polishing.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:55 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:27 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:15 pm

To be fair the second one is a fraction of a second reaction time to fend. It is yellow, but saying it is really poor is wrong. After multi views all officials deemed both yellows.,

And why would you get a multi week ban for two yellows? Straight red yeah, but it is simply two yellows. That’s punishment done on the pitch!

can the first now be upgraded- as it should.

Why should it?

Because imo a straight red, by the laws.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:57 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:55 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:27 pm
can the first now be upgraded- as it should.

Why should it?

Not the question. Do the laws allow it?

In fairness I asked one question and the opined but I was interested in the former more

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:24 pm Leading with the forearm like that is just poor technique. The closed fist element just means you've got no hope of ever arguing it's any sort of hand off. He's a young guy and a rough diamond the Bath coaches need to keep polishing.

Shouldn’t be a rough diamond now, frankly. Pathways and top class experience abound ish

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:47 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:24 pm Leading with the forearm like that is just poor technique. The closed fist element just means you've got no hope of ever arguing it's any sort of hand off. He's a young guy and a rough diamond the Bath coaches need to keep polishing.

Shouldn’t be a rough diamond now, frankly. Pathways and top class experience abound ish

36 Prem games at 23. He's not got that much experience yet. Bags of potential.

Jasper Weise was polished in to an international 8 until, what, 26? Not everyone will be the finished article in their early twenties.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:07 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:47 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:24 pm Leading with the forearm like that is just poor technique. The closed fist element just means you've got no hope of ever arguing it's any sort of hand off. He's a young guy and a rough diamond the Bath coaches need to keep polishing.

Shouldn’t be a rough diamond now, frankly. Pathways and top class experience abound ish

36 Prem games at 23. He's not got that much experience yet. Bags of potential.

Jasper Weise was polished in to an international 8 until, what, 26? Not everyone will be the finished article in their early twenties.

But tons of dev through pathways and he’s 23. Shouldn’t be a ‘rough diamond’ with the investment. Mind that’s your phrase.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:30 pm I feel for you, Which.

I'll survive.
Mind, I haven't watched the game yet.

Barbeary does not have a poor disciplinary record overall, so we shouldn’t overstate things. Outside of the two flashpoint incidents I thought he was fantastic. The rip & turnover against Woki a particular favourite.

Timbo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:42 pm Barbeary does not have a poor disciplinary record overall, so we shouldn’t overstate things. Outside of the two flashpoint incidents I thought he was fantastic. The rip & turnover against Woki a particular favourite.

Agreed on that- made a positive impact against top notch oppos. The contact issues may simply have been down to having a fraction less reaction time at this level

If there was an issue he'd be making head shots every week. Or at least a bit more regularly than one tackle and a clumsy fend in one game.

Welp, he's just been cited for both yellows individually, so that's not great for his England chances.

Puja

Is there a "ball carrier's school" like the tackle school, we could send him to?

I don't think either alone would keep him out of the 6N.
The first looks like 6 weeks (clumsy not malicious), reduced to 3 because player welfare is just a couple of words, and then reduced to 2 because we can send full-time professionals back to school. Post-RWC I've no faith that he won't be let off this one entirely as the catcher was lowering their height - because that's what the laws of gravity dictate. Maybe we'll get an Aussie panel, and the SH will be admonished for being a short-arse.

The second also looks pure clumsiness, he didn't expect a tackler to be there so soon. Which of course, is no excuse. But tends to mean low ban, probably 2. Reducing it to 1 for a good record would really take the piss on the same day as handing him another ban for dangerous play - so I fully expect that it would get the maximum reduction.



2 weeks would mean missing Bath's matches against Toulouse and Bristol, and a nice rest before the 6N if he's the favoured 8 of the 4 options (What's up with Willis? not seen him on a teamsheet for 6-7 weeks now; so I assume he's not an option).

Is there any precedent for these things between concurrent / consecutive bans? I don't have enough faith in rugby's disciplinary procedures to think they'd be consecutive by default (which, of course, they ought to be).



ETA: Looks like precedent is that the bans would be concurrent - which is... well, rugby, I guess.

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:25 am Welp, he's just been cited for both yellows individually, so that's not great for his England chances.

Puja

Yeah if only there was previous for internationals somehow finishing their bans in time for the start of the 6N...