RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:
Was that Curry making contact in the air with the Italian 10? I thought that a fair contest myself

Not sure who it was, but they did run into someone who was jumping for the ball. It wouldn't've been particularly fair, as he was going for the ball, but under the laws he should've been penalised because he wasn't jumping and didn't take care not to clean out the opposite man with his chase.

Puja

I thought they were now looking for a fair contest not simply for two players in the air, but if you're right then you're right (and it was Curry)

I thought there was still the bollocks about the person whose hips were below the other's was culpable, but it's entirely possible that it's changed again and I haven't kept up to date. Who can with all the bloody changes?

Puja

I thought it was hips at shoulders or above basically. As a basic way to measure whether or not both players were realistically competing, if that is the criteria, Curry was OK, just.

I thought Curry got his hands to the ball first. The rules can’t force you to jump if you can get to the ball without jumping.

Team for Scotland, Thursday 8pm

15. James Grayson (Northampton Saints)
14. Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins)
13. Jordan Olowofela (Leicester Tigers)
12. Will Butler (Worcester Warriors)
11. Ben Loader (London Irish)
10. Tom Hardwick (Leicester Tigers)
9. Ben White – captain (Leicester Tigers)
1. Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
2. Beck Cutting (Worcester Warriors)
3. Ehren Painter (Northampton Saints)
4. Joel Kpoku (Saracens)
5. James Scott (Worcester Warriors)
6. Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
7. Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester Rugby)
8. Tom Willis (Wasps)

Replacements:

16. Gabriel Oghre (Wasps)
17. Alex Seville (Gloucester Rugby)
18. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
19. Josh Basham (London Irish)
20. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
21. Rory Brand (London Irish)
22. Matt Williams (London Irish)
23. Tom Parton (London Irish)

Crossdale ruled out of tournament and is replaced by Matt Williams.

Lewis copped a 3 week suspension for his red card, so his tournament is over too. Not sure if we can call up a replacement?

No replacements for bans I believe.

3 weeks for Lewis continues the batshit crazy tradition of disciplinary panels given they will without doubt ignore worse high contacts than that just during the remainder of this tournament. It was a professional foul worth of a yellow that the Italian player was ducking into to make sure it looked a professional foul, I don't object to the upgrade to the red, but there will be more violent contacts of a similar height that attract no ban almost without doubt

fivepointer wrote:Team for Scotland, Thursday 8pm

15. James Grayson (Northampton Saints)
14. Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins)
13. Jordan Olowofela (Leicester Tigers)
12. Will Butler (Worcester Warriors)
11. Ben Loader (London Irish)
10. Tom Hardwick (Leicester Tigers)
9. Ben White – captain (Leicester Tigers)
1. Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
2. Beck Cutting (Worcester Warriors)
3. Ehren Painter (Northampton Saints)
4. Joel Kpoku (Saracens)
5. James Scott (Worcester Warriors)
6. Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
7. Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester Rugby)
8. Tom Willis (Wasps)

Replacements:

16. Gabriel Oghre (Wasps)
17. Alex Seville (Gloucester Rugby)
18. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
19. Josh Basham (London Irish)
20. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
21. Rory Brand (London Irish)
22. Matt Williams (London Irish)
23. Tom Parton (London Irish)

Crossdale ruled out of tournament and is replaced by Matt Williams.

Lewis copped a 3 week suspension for his red card, so his tournament is over too. Not sure if we can call up a replacement?

That is a good team. Hurray for rotation! Although i'm a bit worried that Kpoku's played most of the minutes, especially with his size. However, with Lewis's bullshit ban, we've not got huge numbers of second row options - we could pull Hill out of the back row, but then we'd've had to play one of Curry or Basham who also need a rest. Hopefully we'll get an easier semi and be able to rest him a bit.

Might've made more sense to call up a back 5 player for Crossdale rather than Williams - our cover in the backs is okay without him.

Puja

Digby wrote:3 weeks for Lewis continues the batshit crazy tradition of disciplinary panels given they will without doubt ignore worse high contacts than that just during the remainder of this tournament. It was a professional foul worth of a yellow that the Italian player was ducking into to make sure it looked a professional foul, I don't object to the upgrade to the red, but there will be more violent contacts of a similar height that attract no ban almost without doubt

Yep. Stupid from Lewis, and it ended up as head contact, so fine, a red is an OK result. But a ban? Ridiculous, especially a tournament ending one.

Digby wrote:3 weeks for Lewis continues the batshit crazy tradition of disciplinary panels given they will without doubt ignore worse high contacts than that just during the remainder of this tournament. It was a professional foul worth of a yellow that the Italian player was ducking into to make sure it looked a professional foul, I don't object to the upgrade to the red, but there will be more violent contacts of a similar height that attract no ban almost without doubt

I don't even think it was really a red. He didn't change his line, didn't deliberately choose to make contact and, while in slow motion he had an age to stop, turn around, make sure his elbow didn't connect with anything, at full speed he just couldn't stop. The usual terrible decision by the citing panel in ignorance of the basic laws of physics.

Hopefully there'll be an appeal and he can be back for the final.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:3 weeks for Lewis continues the batshit crazy tradition of disciplinary panels given they will without doubt ignore worse high contacts than that just during the remainder of this tournament. It was a professional foul worth of a yellow that the Italian player was ducking into to make sure it looked a professional foul, I don't object to the upgrade to the red, but there will be more violent contacts of a similar height that attract no ban almost without doubt

I don't even think it was really a red. He didn't change his line, didn't deliberately choose to make contact and, while in slow motion he had an age to stop, turn around, make sure his elbow didn't connect with anything, at full speed he just couldn't stop. The usual terrible decision by the citing panel in ignorance of the basic laws of physics.

Hopefully there'll be an appeal and he can be back for the final.

Puja

He definitely took an extra step in for me, perhaps there'd have been contact without it, but he looked to me to be trying to get in the way.

Raggs wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:3 weeks for Lewis continues the batshit crazy tradition of disciplinary panels given they will without doubt ignore worse high contacts than that just during the remainder of this tournament. It was a professional foul worth of a yellow that the Italian player was ducking into to make sure it looked a professional foul, I don't object to the upgrade to the red, but there will be more violent contacts of a similar height that attract no ban almost without doubt

I don't even think it was really a red. He didn't change his line, didn't deliberately choose to make contact and, while in slow motion he had an age to stop, turn around, make sure his elbow didn't connect with anything, at full speed he just couldn't stop. The usual terrible decision by the citing panel in ignorance of the basic laws of physics.

Hopefully there'll be an appeal and he can be back for the final.

Puja

He definitely took an extra step in for me, perhaps there'd have been contact without it, but he looked to me to be trying to get in the way.

I agree, he took a step but was I'm sure expecting to make contact around the chest, and was caught out by the Italian lad going a bit footballer in the moment

Raggs wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:3 weeks for Lewis continues the batshit crazy tradition of disciplinary panels given they will without doubt ignore worse high contacts than that just during the remainder of this tournament. It was a professional foul worth of a yellow that the Italian player was ducking into to make sure it looked a professional foul, I don't object to the upgrade to the red, but there will be more violent contacts of a similar height that attract no ban almost without doubt

I don't even think it was really a red. He didn't change his line, didn't deliberately choose to make contact and, while in slow motion he had an age to stop, turn around, make sure his elbow didn't connect with anything, at full speed he just couldn't stop. The usual terrible decision by the citing panel in ignorance of the basic laws of physics.

Hopefully there'll be an appeal and he can be back for the final.

Puja

He definitely took an extra step in for me, perhaps there'd have been contact without it, but he looked to me to be trying to get in the way.

See, that's where I think the slow motion has suckered people. "An extra step" in slow motion is a deliberate movement; at full speed, it's just the inevitable consequence of 16st not being able to stop on a sixpence.

Puja

I wasn't expecting him to stop dead, that's impossible, but it looked to me that he deliberately went further across than he needed to, rather than trying to slow.

Raggs wrote:I wasn't expecting him to stop dead, that's impossible, but it looked to me that he deliberately went further across than he needed to, rather than trying to slow.

Exactly what it looked like to me, also he made sure he was sticking in the shoulder, and both don't allow me to infer it was momentum alone which found him out

Puja wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Team for Scotland, Thursday 8pm

15. James Grayson (Northampton Saints)
14. Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins)
13. Jordan Olowofela (Leicester Tigers)
12. Will Butler (Worcester Warriors)
11. Ben Loader (London Irish)
10. Tom Hardwick (Leicester Tigers)
9. Ben White – captain (Leicester Tigers)
1. Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
2. Beck Cutting (Worcester Warriors)
3. Ehren Painter (Northampton Saints)
4. Joel Kpoku (Saracens)
5. James Scott (Worcester Warriors)
6. Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
7. Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester Rugby)
8. Tom Willis (Wasps)

Replacements:

16. Gabriel Oghre (Wasps)
17. Alex Seville (Gloucester Rugby)
18. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
19. Josh Basham (London Irish)
20. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
21. Rory Brand (London Irish)
22. Matt Williams (London Irish)
23. Tom Parton (London Irish)

Crossdale ruled out of tournament and is replaced by Matt Williams.

Lewis copped a 3 week suspension for his red card, so his tournament is over too. Not sure if we can call up a replacement?

That is a good team. Hurray for rotation! Although i'm a bit worried that Kpoku's played most of the minutes, especially with his size. However, with Lewis's bullshit ban, we've not got huge numbers of second row options - we could pull Hill out of the back row, but then we'd've had to play one of Curry or Basham who also need a rest. Hopefully we'll get an easier semi and be able to rest him a bit.

Might've made more sense to call up a back 5 player for Crossdale rather than Williams - our cover in the backs is okay without him.

Puja

Williams can play centre and wing

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Team for Scotland, Thursday 8pm

15. James Grayson (Northampton Saints)
14. Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins)
13. Jordan Olowofela (Leicester Tigers)
12. Will Butler (Worcester Warriors)
11. Ben Loader (London Irish)
10. Tom Hardwick (Leicester Tigers)
9. Ben White – captain (Leicester Tigers)
1. Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
2. Beck Cutting (Worcester Warriors)
3. Ehren Painter (Northampton Saints)
4. Joel Kpoku (Saracens)
5. James Scott (Worcester Warriors)
6. Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
7. Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester Rugby)
8. Tom Willis (Wasps)

Replacements:

16. Gabriel Oghre (Wasps)
17. Alex Seville (Gloucester Rugby)
18. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
19. Josh Basham (London Irish)
20. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
21. Rory Brand (London Irish)
22. Matt Williams (London Irish)
23. Tom Parton (London Irish)

Crossdale ruled out of tournament and is replaced by Matt Williams.

Lewis copped a 3 week suspension for his red card, so his tournament is over too. Not sure if we can call up a replacement?

That is a good team. Hurray for rotation! Although i'm a bit worried that Kpoku's played most of the minutes, especially with his size. However, with Lewis's bullshit ban, we've not got huge numbers of second row options - we could pull Hill out of the back row, but then we'd've had to play one of Curry or Basham who also need a rest. Hopefully we'll get an easier semi and be able to rest him a bit.

Might've made more sense to call up a back 5 player for Crossdale rather than Williams - our cover in the backs is okay without him.

Puja

Williams can play centre and wing

Sorry - I meant back 5 of the pack to cover our loss at lock through Lewis's suspension.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:
That is a good team. Hurray for rotation! Although i'm a bit worried that Kpoku's played most of the minutes, especially with his size. However, with Lewis's bullshit ban, we've not got huge numbers of second row options - we could pull Hill out of the back row, but then we'd've had to play one of Curry or Basham who also need a rest. Hopefully we'll get an easier semi and be able to rest him a bit.

Might've made more sense to call up a back 5 player for Crossdale rather than Williams - our cover in the backs is okay without him.

Puja

Williams can play centre and wing

Sorry - I meant back 5 of the pack to cover our loss at lock through Lewis's suspension.

Puja

Gotcha

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:I wasn't expecting him to stop dead, that's impossible, but it looked to me that he deliberately went further across than he needed to, rather than trying to slow.

Exactly what it looked like to me, also he made sure he was sticking in the shoulder, and both don't allow me to infer it was momentum alone which found him out

I agree that it was deliberate. It was a dumb cheap shot, but when you say he ‘made sure he was sticking in the shoulder’, it implies there was significant force behind it. There really wasn’t. Yellow card at worst IMO.

Compare that to the Kiwi who took out the Welsh player. That was ‘sticking the shoulder in’ with intent to harm.

Two offences with the same ban but massively different in terms of malicious intent.

Scrumhead wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:I wasn't expecting him to stop dead, that's impossible, but it looked to me that he deliberately went further across than he needed to, rather than trying to slow.

Exactly what it looked like to me, also he made sure he was sticking in the shoulder, and both don't allow me to infer it was momentum alone which found him out

I agree that it was deliberate. It was a dumb cheap shot, but when you say he ‘made sure he was sticking in the shoulder’, it implies there was significant force behind it. There really wasn’t. Yellow card at worst IMO.

Compare that to the Kiwi who took out the Welsh player. That was ‘sticking the shoulder in’ with intent to harm.

Two offences with the same ban but massively different in terms of malicious intent.

Turned his arm toward him then, no with any attempt to hurt and only with an intent to block/bump him I'm confident of. Not seen the Kiwi hit on the Welsh lad, but I'm not surprised there's a worse incident, I'll be even less surprised if it drew a smaller sanction

Some good bits this evening, at times it seems so easy but then some fairly brain dead moments to give Scotland some joy. Same ol' same ol'.

My favourite moment so far apart from the first England try was the understandably confused look by the England 1 after the ref repeatedly yelled 'four out' at him during a maul.

England now officially top seeds after New Zealand fail to get a bonus point against Australia. By my reckoning, the semis are a rather pleasing echo of the seniors, with England vs South Africa and France vs New Zealand. I believe SA have just squeezed out Italy for the last semi-final spot on points difference.

Puja

How many times have England players ignored an overlap? Grrrrrrr.

Mr Mwenda wrote:How many times have England players ignored an overlap? Grrrrrrr.

Mind, this is far from the first choice backline (and showing why). I'd be hoping for Brand, Smith, Ibitoye, Hardwick, Butler, Olowofela, Parton for the semi-final.

Puja

Olowofela has been the surprised of the tournament for me.