RugbyRebels

Dunbar dropped completely, not listed on the injured players list.

Mikey Brown wrote: Actually pretty damn good? Greig as captain is my major issue. Give it to McInally or Gilchrist and play a fast 9, but no massive blunders in there? Not feeling Grigg at this level but Scott/Dunbar can't stay fit.

I am a bit more annoyed at JJ missing out than I thought I would be. Since Newcastle away he has played and got the better of his international squad rivals and a recent French captain.

Didn't spot Swinson in there at first, but I can't honestly see him pushing past anyone and I imagine he's a good voice to have around.

Do Dean/Grigg deserve a spot ahead of Johnstone?

Shit. Only just realised there's no Thomson. Guess he isn't fit after all.

Big D wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote: Actually pretty damn good? Greig as captain is my major issue. Give it to McInally or Gilchrist and play a fast 9, but no massive blunders in there? Not feeling Grigg at this level but Scott/Dunbar can't stay fit.

I am a bit more annoyed at JJ missing out than I thought I would be. Since Newcastle away he has played and got the better of his international squad rivals and a recent French captain.

JJ?

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Mikey Brown wrote:Didn't spot Swinson in there at first, but I can't honestly see him pushing past anyone and I imagine he's a good voice to have around.

Do Dean/Grigg deserve a spot ahead of Johnstone?

Shit. Only just realised there's no Thomson. Guess he isn't fit after all.

Grigg and Harris would be the two I'd have him ahead of.

Mikey Brown wrote:Didn't spot Swinson in there at first, but I can't honestly see him pushing past anyone and I imagine he's a good voice to have around.

Do Dean/Grigg deserve a spot ahead of Johnstone?

Shit. Only just realised there's no Thomson. Guess he isn't fit after all.

Thomson?

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Adder wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Didn't spot Swinson in there at first, but I can't honestly see him pushing past anyone and I imagine he's a good voice to have around.

Do Dean/Grigg deserve a spot ahead of Johnstone?

Shit. Only just realised there's no Thomson. Guess he isn't fit after all.

Thomson?

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Blade. He's on the injury list.
Unavailable through injury: John Barclay (Edinburgh), Mark Bennett (Edinburgh), Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh), Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Lewis Carmichael (Edinburgh), David Denton (Leicester Tigers), Cornell Du Preez (Worcester Warriors), Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Toulouse), Luke Hamilton (Edinburgh), Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh), Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks), Matt Scott (Edinburgh), Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh), Duncan Taylor (Saracens), Blade Thomson (Scarlets), George Turner (Glasgow Warriors), Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons).

Adder wrote:

Big D wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote: Actually pretty damn good? Greig as captain is my major issue. Give it to McInally or Gilchrist and play a fast 9, but no massive blunders in there? Not feeling Grigg at this level but Scott/Dunbar can't stay fit.

I am a bit more annoyed at JJ missing out than I thought I would be. Since Newcastle away he has played and got the better of his international squad rivals and a recent French captain.

JJ?

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James Johnston.

That's quite a list. I keep forgetting about Carmichael too. What happened to Sutherland?

I'd go with:
1. Dell
2. McInally
3. Nel,
4. Gilchrist
5. Gray
6. Ritchie (Maybe Skinner)
7. Watson
8. Strauss
9. Laidlaw
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Johnson
13. Jones
14. Graham
15. Hogg

Cherry/Kerr, Allan, Berghan, Skinner (maybe BBT), Ashe, Horne x2, Kinghorn

Although we all know Wilson will start.

Considering the size of the injury list in relation to such a small playing pool, I can't see much wrong with it.

It's funny how quickly things change - two years ago I'd have argued that Ford and Dickinson were instrumental to our RWC chances. That is some fall from grace for Ross Ford especially.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Considering the size of the injury list in relation to such a small playing pool, I can't see much wrong with it.

It's funny how quickly things change - two years ago I'd have argued that Ford and Dickinson were instrumental to our RWC chances. That is some fall from grace for Ross Ford especially.

It has been an epic rise for McInally too. He moved to hooker in 2013 and only really started playing regularly there in 2015. Now arguably one of our best players.

I think it was only in the last year I didn't feel the move to hooker was a mistake. All our hookers have a habit of biffing crucial lineouts (or the callers? Somebody needs to sort it, regardless) but he is fantastic in the loose and appears to help the scrum out quite a lot.

What's his decision making as captain for Edinburgh been like? I'd be quite keen to look at him.

Would have JJ in there probably over grigg or Harris. Only time I've seen Graham was v Embra and he never showed anything worth calling him into the squad for nevermind the to and fro with England.

Big D wrote:

Adder wrote:

Big D wrote:
I am a bit more annoyed at JJ missing out than I thought I would be. Since Newcastle away he has played and got the better of his international squad rivals and a recent French captain.

JJ?

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James Johnston.

As well as he has played recently, Johnston looks to me like being a great club player is his level. Mind you, you could probably say the same of the likes of Grigg and Harris.

On the injury list, it’s pretty extensive but the only consolation is that it doesn’t feature many nailed on starters other than Barclay. Perhaps Duncan Taylor. Brown and Fagerson would probably be in the 23 if fit; Richie Gray in with a shout too.

I'm not for a minute suggesting he's a starting/23 prospect.

But at international level selection should be based upon players who we know can perform at that level, prospects and players who are in form.

JJ falls fairly into that category IMO and deserved to be on ahead of Harris.

Big D wrote:I'd go with:
1. Dell
2. McInally
3. Nel,
4. Gilchrist
5. Gray
6. Ritchie (Maybe Skinner)
7. Watson
8. Strauss
9. Laidlaw
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Johnson
13. Jones
14. Graham
15. Hogg

Cherry/Kerr, Allan, Berghan, Skinner (maybe BBT), Ashe, Horne x2, Kinghorn

Although we all know Wilson will start.

I'd have Ashe and Horne at 8 and 9.

Can't quite make my mind up whether Skinner gets in ahead of Gray, or maybe even Ritchie but I don't think he's really a 6, as much as it would be nice to beef up the backrow.

The idea of dropping Seymour completely is weird but Kinghorn offers a lot from the bench. Seymour always scores against Italy though.

I'd love to see Bhatti off the bench provide some carrying impact. We have so few of those players. But I don't know if his form is deserving of it?

Wouldnt be keen on Skinner at 6 but open to him starting in the second row or being a sub covering both.

I'm not sure Strauss has really done enough so I'd prefer Ashe but doesnt seem to be trusted for big games still

Cameo wrote:Wouldnt be keen on Skinner at 6 but open to him starting in the second row or being a sub covering both.

I'm not sure Strauss has really done enough so I'd prefer Ashe but doesnt seem to be trusted for big games still

I remember thinking Ashe was going to be the next big thing, but for whatever reasons (not the least of which is injuries), it hasn’t panned out that way...yet! I also get the impression from various interviews/ podcasts that he’s one of these guys who is so into performance and mindset that he sometimes forgets just to win, to get over the bloody line, so to speak.

That’s probably fairly harsh and is, ultimately, an opinion based on next to nothing. But hey - it’s the Internet! He’s had a good season thus far and while he’s dipped in the past few weeks, so has his team. I hope he gets a shot v Italy and just smashes it!

I think “not least the injuries” doesn’t really do it justice. It feels like he’s not strung a dozen games together at all since breaking through, with this recent batch of form/fitness being his best. We really need to find out now whether he can hack it or not.

Skinner is predominantly a second row but he has been excellent at 6 for Exeter and is regularly swapping games at 2nd row and 6.

Ashe has suffered in part from raised expectations from being pitched in too early. Seems to be turning the corner now though.

Out of interest, when is the point for you all that the hopeless optimism really kicks in? For me, to quote Lady Gaga, I’m on the edge.

Get through these two Heineken Cup matches, hopefully with 2 teams instead of none in the next round, and I’ll be wholly consumed by a reality-altering fervour, awaiting an almost orgasmic release if we can only just beat Italy, then Ireland, then France, etc.

General Zod wrote:Out of interest, when is the point for you all that the hopeless optimism really kicks in? For me, to quote Lady Gaga, I’m on the edge.

Get through these two Heineken Cup matches, hopefully with 2 teams instead of none in the next round, and I’ll be wholly consumed by a reality-altering fervour, awaiting an almost orgasmic release if we can only just beat Italy, then Ireland, then France, etc.

Nope, learned that lesson. Based on recent history I can't see better than a 2 win 6N.

Don't get me wrong, I think the way the fixtures are this year they are all potentially winnable, I just can't see it.

Italy - Pro: lets be honest we should win. Con: However in the entirety of the 6N we have won only 2 of our 1st up games.
Ireleand - Pro: Beat them last time at home and last year did cause them problems. Con: Best team in the world and always a tough match up.
France - Pro: I do believe we are the better team. Con: we always find ways to lose against them in France.
Wales - Pro: Played them off the park in the second half last time at Murrayfield and the two sides on paper are close. Cons: GT hasn't shown in the two games lately that he can beat the welsh systems.
England - Pro: They are beatable. Con: They will be wanting revenge and it is away at their patch where we have a honking record.

Big D wrote:

General Zod wrote:Out of interest, when is the point for you all that the hopeless optimism really kicks in? For me, to quote Lady Gaga, I’m on the edge.

Get through these two Heineken Cup matches, hopefully with 2 teams instead of none in the next round, and I’ll be wholly consumed by a reality-altering fervour, awaiting an almost orgasmic release if we can only just beat Italy, then Ireland, then France, etc.

Nope, learned that lesson. Based on recent history I can't see better than a 2 win 6N.

Don't get me wrong, I think the way the fixtures are this year they are all potentially winnable, I just can't see it.

Italy - Pro: lets be honest we should win. Con: However in the entirety of the 6N we have won only 2 of our 1st up games.
Ireleand - Pro: Beat them last time at home and last year did cause them problems. Con: Best team in the world and always a tough match up.
France - Pro: I do believe we are the better team. Con: we always find ways to lose against them in France.
Wales - Pro: Played them off the park in the second half last time at Murrayfield and the two sides on paper are close. Cons: GT hasn't shown in the two games lately that he can beat the welsh systems.
England - Pro: They are beatable. Con: They will be wanting revenge and it is away at their patch where we have a honking record.

Pretty much how I see it too. Not confident at all after the AI's but at least we're not going in with the same misplaced over confidence as last year, before we had our pants pulled down in Cardiff. Finishing outside the bottom two for the fourth year on the trot would be nice.

I'd predict three wins but can definitely see 2 or 4 without much difference in our performance. 1 win would be a blow but there's only one match there that you look at and think we will definitely win if we perform