RugbyRebels

Off swimmkng shortly, the day is looking up.

I’m off to bed. Hope the “World in Union” earworm is short lived.

Lizard wrote:I’m off to bed. Hope the “World in Union” earworm is short lived.

As and when you wake up I'd merely like to say 'the world as one'

Well, South Africa may have a massive societal triumph and a new symbol of unity for their people, but they made my little girl cry this morning, so fuck 'em.

Poor little love - she's 6 and has only started really paying attention to rugby this RWC, so while she knows in theory that England could lose, she'd never seen it happen before today. The same thing happened to me in 1995 and I remember being inconsolable as well.

Puja

I didn't actually feel as bad after that as I thought I would. We made the final, and in the final, were beaten by the better team. We had poor handling and all sort of things didn't go right, but the ref had nothing to do with our loss, and that's about all you can ask for. We still made a final lads!

Then took my boy to krav maga class, where he got his 2nd star, and continued to do really well, and hopefully if the 100mph winds can calm themselves, I'll have a fun session with the u8s tomorrow.

You never know, Wasps could even win a game too.

Raggs wrote:I didn't actually feel as bad after that as I thought I would. We made the final, and in the final, were beaten by the better team. We had poor handling and all sort of things didn't go right, but the ref had nothing to do with our loss, and that's about all you can ask for. We still made a final lads!

Then took my boy to krav maga class, where he got his 2nd star, and continued to do really well, and hopefully if the 100mph winds can calm themselves, I'll have a fun session with the u8s tomorrow.

You never know, Wasps could even win a game too.

I feel much the same, the better team won and we're looking like an absolute force given the age of many of our key players. The future looks bright

I’ve felt utterly dejected all day, but I suspect I’ll be over it by tomorrow.

I agree with Raggs on the whole. Had you offered me a place in the final with a good win over Australia and a glorious win over NZ, before the tournament I’d have been very happy with that. I’m just gutted we went out with such a whimper today.

We have a young side and I think we’re in good shape to kick on, so roll on the 6 Nations.

I'm disappointed but far from distraught. If we had lost narrowly while playing really well, i would have reacted differently. Plain fact is were 2nd best throughout and really never looked like we were going to win.
Bitter pill to swallow but there's plenty of quality in this squad and plenty of good young players pushing for future inclusion.

Think the only thing that really disappointed me, was that so much came down to the scrum. But, if our handling had been better, there'd have been fewer scrums anyway.

Raggs wrote:Think the only thing that really disappointed me, was that so much came down to the scrum. But, if our handling had been better, there'd have been fewer scrums anyway.

Interesting that having the number 1 scrum was such a stated focus for Eddie and we ended up with this game. That said I'd have picked Mako, George and Sincks to start, and Cole having to go 80 and knowing he had to manage that was one of those things, and going back 4 weeks I wouldn't have picked Lawes but after Oz and Nz he was a perfectly fair selection.


I do wonder what was going on with the restarts, I've pondered on whether Launch would have been a stronger selection with his maul/scrum work, to which people could easily cite his restart work and line outs, but we lost out there today also, but beyond that people seemed to not pick up the ball in flight in the SA vs Wales game, maybe it's a problem with the lights at this stadium, maybe it's just another thing we got wrong on the day. I don't think we'd get as much wrong if the game was repeated next week, sadly we have to wait 4 years for even another chance, c'est la vie!

Lawes was the only one i think I'd have considered changing, but that's hindsight.

Raggs wrote:Lawes was the only one i think I'd have considered changing, but that's hindsight.

Given the last few weeks I wouldn't have picked Launch, though maybe on the day, and only maybe, he was our best shout to get some foothold in the game, lamentable though it might have been. It would have been very harsh on Lawes given he's played so well until today

Puja wrote:Well, South Africa may have a massive societal triumph and a new symbol of unity for their people, but they made my little girl cry this morning, so fuck 'em.

Poor little love - she's 6 and has only started really paying attention to rugby this RWC, so while she knows in theory that England could lose, she'd never seen it happen before today. The same thing happened to me in 1995 and I remember being inconsolable as well.

Puja

I would say they did the same to both my boys, but that was me, though how I managed not to swear is an achievement way above anything South Africa did!

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:Lawes was the only one i think I'd have considered changing, but that's hindsight.

Given the last few weeks I wouldn't have picked Launch, though maybe on the day, and only maybe, he was our best shout to get some foothold in the game, lamentable though it might have been. It would have been very harsh on Lawes given he's played so well until today

Also a temptation with hindsight to go back to the Aus game in terms of back line. We played horses for courses until today maybe. I’d have got F/F Manu, but maybe F Manu Slade would’ve seen a different result. But then maybe Sink not getting sparked or good players not panicking or anything.

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:Lawes was the only one i think I'd have considered changing, but that's hindsight.

Given the last few weeks I wouldn't have picked Launch, though maybe on the day, and only maybe, he was our best shout to get some foothold in the game, lamentable though it might have been. It would have been very harsh on Lawes given he's played so well until today

Pretty much. We should have known the bok scrum would have been very strong, but even then as i said, it's a hindsight call.

We panicked a bit i felt. Forced the passes when we didn't need to and didn't get better when we did. Lots of poor passing and offloads, and lots of knock ons in the tackle. The south African defence but a lot of pressure on and we didn't take it well. Equally they varied their attack really nicely early on which had our defence second guessing.

I'll be working on line speed in a line at u8s tomorrow, along with handling and hopefully getting the ball it wide.

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:Lawes was the only one i think I'd have considered changing, but that's hindsight.

Given the last few weeks I wouldn't have picked Launch, though maybe on the day, and only maybe, he was our best shout to get some foothold in the game, lamentable though it might have been. It would have been very harsh on Lawes given he's played so well until today

Pretty much. We should have known the bok scrum would have been very strong, but even then as i said, it's a hindsight call.

We panicked a bit i felt. Forced the passes when we didn't need to and didn't get better when we did. Lots of poor passing and offloads, and lots of knock ons in the tackle. The south African defence but a lot of pressure on and we didn't take it well. Equally they varied their attack really nicely early on which had our defence second guessing.

I'll be working on line speed in a line at u8s tomorrow, along with handling and hopefully getting the ball it wide.

I was surprised at just how early in the game we went into panic mode, whether Lawes giving away a penalty or throwing passes that just needed rather than making exit plays. Then again I wasn't presented with the actuality of the Saffa physical game.

Also, linespeed at U8? Just how organised are they? I could barely keep the blighters in a horizontal line across the pitch never mind thoughts of getting them off the line (I'm assuming this is pre contact?)

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:Lawes was the only one i think I'd have considered changing, but that's hindsight.

Given the last few weeks I wouldn't have picked Launch, though maybe on the day, and only maybe, he was our best shout to get some foothold in the game, lamentable though it might have been. It would have been very harsh on Lawes given he's played so well until today

Also a temptation with hindsight to go back to the Aus game in terms of back line. We played horses for courses until today maybe. I’d have got F/F Manu, but maybe F Manu Slade would’ve seen a different result. But then maybe Sink not getting sparked or good players not panicking or anything.

I wouldn't in advance have been tempted to drop Ford, If they'd wanted to drop Farrell I wouldn't have minded mind. Based on today I wouldn't make a case for keeping either above the other, they had very little ball and what they had wasn't great, but they rather stuttered with the slim pickings they were presented with

Actually beyond picking Launch and either Ford or Faz at 10 the other change based solely on how today went, with due consideration I've had a few at this point, would have been to stick Cockanasiga into the centres, we flat out didn't play any rugby so why not just stick another carrier into the side and see if that does anything to their defensive line. In the main it's not like SA played any rugby either so defending at 12 wouldn't have been beyond him

I wouldn’t either. With hindsight I’d rather have Ford from the bench to change things. As a Tigers fan I’ve seen Ford behind a pack not in ascendency and it’s been a struggle, which to be fair of more FHs.

Digby wrote:I was surprised at just how early in the game we went into panic mode, whether Lawes giving away a penalty or throwing passes that just needed rather than making exit plays. Then again I wasn't presented with the actuality of the Saffa physical game.

Also, linespeed at U8? Just how organised are they? I could barely keep the blighters in a horizontal line across the pitch never mind thoughts of getting them off the line (I'm assuming this is pre contact?)

Lawes' penalty had me thinking he must be injured or something, no effort to move whatsoever, just laid there and waited for the penalty.

6 aside tag. I reckon I could keep them all reasonably in a line, but at the moment we want them to move up. Admittedly, they tend to honeypot, but some have the sense not to go for the tag all the time. My boy is probably the worst for chasing the ball, but equally, he probably makes over half the tags on the team.

I don't know if I could get them all coming up, depending on which kids I could probably get 5 out of 20 or so going for it at the moment, but I've come to a realisation. We tell the kids to move up, and stay in a line, form a defensive line on free passes etc, but I've not told them to tell each other to move up. We've told them to tell each other about making a defensive line and filling the gaps, most of them do now do that, and form a reasonable line, generally with OK spacing before a free pass. Now I plan on getting them to shout ready to each other, and shout Up when the pass is made. The realisation being that adults don't shout up, or hit, or hammer etc when it's time to move up, because it's a complicated part of the game, they do it because it makes the game easier. They've been told what to shout at each other too. So I'm going to try the same with the kids. Communication is a huge part of rugby, and something I've tried to encourage, but I'd not actually told them what they should say to each other and in which scenarios.

Last week we started off with a super power. I asked them to name something that had wings and was big, eventually one of them suggested the word I wanted, which was dragon. A suitably cool name, and something they all liked and bought into. One player on each side (not the speedster) got the super power. When they shouted dragon, the ball had to get passed to them, a bit of discussion got them often standing on the edges of the pitch, and trying to spot when the defence wasn't in front of them. Now it didn't work every time, but it was the first attempt, and we've effectively got our wide call. We also had them passing the call along the line, so as soon as someone heard it, they started yelling too.

So yeah, adults don't have special calls for plays because it's complicated, they have it because it makes rugby a lot easier. You have a wide play because the 13/wing see's the space out wide and yells that inside. And yet I (and all the other coaches) seem to expect kids to be able to spot the space from anywhere, and pass the ball down the line on pure creative instinct, despite the fact that there's not many adults that can do that. We don't want the children drilled into fixed running lines, fixed plays etc, but I think we try and avoid stifling creativity so much, that we don't even arm them with the basics of calls.

I doubt I'm the first coach to ever tell their u8s to do this, probably not even in the first thousand, but I've not seen others doing it at any of the festivals or joint training days, and some of them seem to really know their stuff.

Raggs wrote:
6 aside tag. I reckon I could keep them all reasonably in a line, but at the moment we want them to move up. Admittedly, they tend to honeypot, but some have the sense not to go for the tag all the time. My boy is probably the worst for chasing the ball, but equally, he probably makes over half the tags on the team.

Do you have them watching the man (player I suppose) or ball?

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:
6 aside tag. I reckon I could keep them all reasonably in a line, but at the moment we want them to move up. Admittedly, they tend to honeypot, but some have the sense not to go for the tag all the time. My boy is probably the worst for chasing the ball, but equally, he probably makes over half the tags on the team.

Do you have them watching the man (player I suppose) or ball?

If they were watching their opposite numbers, they'd honeypot even worse 99% of the time, seeing as all their opposites are likely squashed up together shouting "Pass! Pass! Pass!", or stood at the back picking their nose. I've not told them to watch anything to be honest. Not sure what the best approach would be with that

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:
6 aside tag. I reckon I could keep them all reasonably in a line, but at the moment we want them to move up. Admittedly, they tend to honeypot, but some have the sense not to go for the tag all the time. My boy is probably the worst for chasing the ball, but equally, he probably makes over half the tags on the team.

Do you have them watching the man (player I suppose) or ball?

If they were watching their opposite numbers, they'd honeypot even worse 99% of the time, seeing as all their opposites are likely squashed up together shouting "Pass! Pass! Pass!", or stood at the back picking their nose. I've not told them to watch anything to be honest. Not sure what the best approach would be with that

I'd be very surprised if people are intentionally trying to get players to ball watch before 15 or so, really you could leave it to 17-18, and even then I suspect most teams will not watch the ball, maybe in another 10 years it'll be the norm. Tracking your man is easier to do unless you've got a lot of time, and even when you progress it'll only be to switching which man you've got