RugbyRebels

France: Dulin; Thomas, Vakatawa, Fickou, Penaud; Jalibert, Dupont; Baille, Marchand, Haouas; Taofifenua, Willemse; Cretin, Ollivon (capt), Alldritt.

Replacements: Chat, Gros, Aldegheri, Cazeaux, Woki, Jelonch, Serin, Ntamack.

I'm another who's not convinced by Ewels, but then, I'm not convinced by Hill either - despite 3 consecutive starts (and 4 appearances from 5 in the Autumn), and someone has to play lock.
I think it's fair that Hill had first shot this window, I also think it's fair that something needs to change in the row, and that Hill is far more vulnerable than Itoje.

Malins is the change we've all been calling for, and can fit into the same systems in the same way as Daly, but as an upgrade in every respect bar experience.

LCD Vs George is a form pick, but I'm a little surprised it's happened at this point.

Delighted to see a proper bench.

We all knew that Youngs and Farrell were starting regardless - Youngs is actually deserved right now, and dropping the skipper is never a decision taken lightly, and has way more follow-on effects than just on-field team balance.
Lawrence for Farrell on 55 minutes is going to be too much to hope for, but I'll hope for it anyway.

We've not all been calling for Daly to be dropped, not that's a decision one can much argue against after the Hardy try.

He does remind a little of Mike Catt back in the day, in that people seem to gloss over what Daly does do well. Hopefully Malins hits the ground running

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Banquo wrote: The major issue has actually been discipline.
I agree the midfield remains chronically unbalanced though, with nothing coming from the back three that helps that.
The French kicking game is excellent- they kick long and often. They kick a lot more than is generally recognised.

Sorry I meant the big selection issue, agree that discipline has been killing us.

France do kick and as you say kick long. They are very talented footballers but do tend to kick just a bit to long to complete, were in not for their exceptionally well organised chase it would be a defect in their game. Edwards has really done an exceptional job there, Ibanez talking him into taking the job was a masterstroke. Ireland were able to match France in the tactical kicking game by taking those slightly long kicks and replying before the chase got there. Made the game a lot closer than many expected.

They aren't trying to compete, its a territory game....and very deliberately done as you point out. As you say, if you can match their length of kicking and even up the kick tennis, then fine; Ireland kicked a lot more than France, and attacked their line out and forced a lot of turnovers- not sure why you say it was closer than expected--- tough place and side to play.

Their game will put a lot of pressure in Malins, which is a good thing.

Dublin is normally a tough place to go but Ireland out of form against a French team playing with swagger, all the talk before the game was about whether Ireland could hold on. It certainly felt like that at times when France were on top. Ireland didn't allow France territory and as you say really got stuck into the French lineout. I'm not confident England will be able to trouble the French lineout in the same way but if they do I expect an early introduction of young Woki. I thought Ireland played well and were very combative but lacked a cutting edge which resonates with where England are.

You are definitely right Malins will be under lots of pressure but he's got a great step and if gets past that first man which because of how the French kick I think he might be able to. Then he's off and will make lots of metres. Malins will also know there's several young fullbacks waiting to take the shirt should he not take his chance with Parton and Steward both looking impressive this season.

Comsidering Edie's selections for the last few games that's a lot of change for this match. I'm not complaining. Hill and Ewels are both meh, I've been a bit bemused by the warmth for Hill on this board tbh. Launch and Lawes are a big step up but unavailable so hey ho. Daly's been an Eddie fave for ages so him getting dropped is quite something. What I do find odd is that we've been 6/2 bench right up until we meet the the one pack that can possibly munch us. No one else find that strange?

Beasties wrote:Comsidering Edie's selections for the last few games that's a lot of change for this match. I'm not complaining. Hill and Ewels are both meh, I've been a bit bemused by the warmth for Hill on this board tbh. Launch and Lawes are a big step up but unavailable so hey ho. Daly's been an Eddie fave for ages so him getting dropped is quite something. What I do find odd is that we've been 6/2 bench right up until we meet the the one pack that can possibly munch us. No one else find that strange?

Yep, timing does seem slightly odd. Not sure who Jelonch is but that looks like 6:2 for France, right? And they've gone with that classic pairing of two enforcers at lock and 3 big, abrasive jumpers in the backrow. I can't wait for someone to quiz Eddie on it so he can tell us that he's picked the best 23 to win the game, mate.

Let's hope the pack do the job otherwise this might be like SA in the final and give us another 2 years of 6:2/Lawes-at-blindside.

FKAS wrote:

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:
Sorry I meant the big selection issue, agree that discipline has been killing us.

France do kick and as you say kick long. They are very talented footballers but do tend to kick just a bit to long to complete, were in not for their exceptionally well organised chase it would be a defect in their game. Edwards has really done an exceptional job there, Ibanez talking him into taking the job was a masterstroke. Ireland were able to match France in the tactical kicking game by taking those slightly long kicks and replying before the chase got there. Made the game a lot closer than many expected.

They aren't trying to compete, its a territory game....and very deliberately done as you point out. As you say, if you can match their length of kicking and even up the kick tennis, then fine; Ireland kicked a lot more than France, and attacked their line out and forced a lot of turnovers- not sure why you say it was closer than expected--- tough place and side to play.

Their game will put a lot of pressure in Malins, which is a good thing.

Dublin is normally a tough place to go but Ireland out of form against a French team playing with swagger, all the talk before the game was about whether Ireland could hold on. It certainly felt like that at times when France were on top. Ireland didn't allow France territory and as you say really got stuck into the French lineout. I'm not confident England will be able to trouble the French lineout in the same way but if they do I expect an early introduction of young Woki. I thought Ireland played well and were very combative but lacked a cutting edge which resonates with where England are.

You are definitely right Malins will be under lots of pressure but he's got a great step and if gets past that first man which because of how the French kick I think he might be able to. Then he's off and will make lots of metres. Malins will also know there's several young fullbacks waiting to take the shirt should he not take his chance with Parton and Steward both looking impressive this season.

Yep on Parton (who if he can just tighten up a bit looks like he has the gas and step to make it internationallY), Steward (old school rock under the high ball with good skills; genuinely no idea on his pace though), and I like Tommy Freeman at Saints too (who is JPR compared to Harry and George).
I wasn't sure that Ireland were out of form tbh- they had a good chance to beat what we know is a good Welsh team even when down to 14. Sexton seems to be their limitating factor tbh . They have an excellent tight 5, good centres, good back three options and a tough back row. They probably haven't maximised their resources if anything.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Beasties wrote:Comsidering Edie's selections for the last few games that's a lot of change for this match. I'm not complaining. Hill and Ewels are both meh, I've been a bit bemused by the warmth for Hill on this board tbh. Launch and Lawes are a big step up but unavailable so hey ho. Daly's been an Eddie fave for ages so him getting dropped is quite something. What I do find odd is that we've been 6/2 bench right up until we meet the the one pack that can possibly munch us. No one else find that strange?

Yep, timing does seem slightly odd. Not sure who Jelonch is but that looks like 6:2 for France, right? And they've gone with that classic pairing of two enforcers at lock and 3 big, abrasive jumpers in the backrow. I can't wait for someone to quiz Eddie on it so he can tell us that he's picked the best 23 to win the game, mate.

Let's hope the pack do the job otherwise this might be like SA in the final and give us another 2 years of 6:2/Lawes-at-blindside.

interesting that France themselves have gone 6:2.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:Dublin is normally a tough place to go but Ireland out of form against a French team playing with swagger, all the talk before the game was about whether Ireland could hold on. It certainly felt like that at times when France were on top. Ireland didn't allow France territory and as you say really got stuck into the French lineout. I'm not confident England will be able to trouble the French lineout in the same way but if they do I expect an early introduction of young Woki. I thought Ireland played well and were very combative but lacked a cutting edge which resonates with where England are.

You are definitely right Malins will be under lots of pressure but he's got a great step and if gets past that first man which because of how the French kick I think he might be able to. Then he's off and will make lots of metres. Malins will also know there's several young fullbacks waiting to take the shirt should he not take his chance with Parton and Steward both looking impressive this season.

Yep on Parton (who if he can just tighten up a bit looks like he has the gas and step to make it internationallY), Steward (old school rock under the high ball with good skills; genuinely no idea on his pace though), and I like Tommy Freeman at Saints too (who is JPR compared to Harry and George).
I wasn't sure that Ireland were out of form tbh- they had a good chance to beat what we know is a good Welsh team even when down to 14. Sexton seems to be their limitating factor tbh . They have an excellent tight 5, good centres, good back three options and a tough back row. They probably haven't maximised their resources if anything.

Quick enough without being lightning - I'd say on a par with a peak Mike Brown (who was actually reasonably fleet at his peak, before the jokes come in). He reminds me very much of Tim Stimpson in a lot of ways - hopefully he'll have a longer England career.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:Dublin is normally a tough place to go but Ireland out of form against a French team playing with swagger, all the talk before the game was about whether Ireland could hold on. It certainly felt like that at times when France were on top. Ireland didn't allow France territory and as you say really got stuck into the French lineout. I'm not confident England will be able to trouble the French lineout in the same way but if they do I expect an early introduction of young Woki. I thought Ireland played well and were very combative but lacked a cutting edge which resonates with where England are.

You are definitely right Malins will be under lots of pressure but he's got a great step and if gets past that first man which because of how the French kick I think he might be able to. Then he's off and will make lots of metres. Malins will also know there's several young fullbacks waiting to take the shirt should he not take his chance with Parton and Steward both looking impressive this season.

Yep on Parton (who if he can just tighten up a bit looks like he has the gas and step to make it internationallY), Steward (old school rock under the high ball with good skills; genuinely no idea on his pace though), and I like Tommy Freeman at Saints too (who is JPR compared to Harry and George).
I wasn't sure that Ireland were out of form tbh- they had a good chance to beat what we know is a good Welsh team even when down to 14. Sexton seems to be their limitating factor tbh . They have an excellent tight 5, good centres, good back three options and a tough back row. They probably haven't maximised their resources if anything.

Quick enough without being lightning - I'd say on a par with a peak Mike Brown (who was actually reasonably fleet at his peak, before the jokes come in). He reminds me very much of Tim Stimpson in a lot of ways - hopefully he'll have a longer England career.

Puja

Yes, my impression has been quick enough at AP level. Be fascinated to see him internationally and what that looks like- Mike Brown made himself faster through specific training, after just not being good enough on debut. Steward looks like he has very good all round skills and makes good decisions.

FKAS wrote:France: Dulin; Thomas, Vakatawa, Fickou, Penaud; Jalibert, Dupont; Baille, Marchand, Haouas; Taofifenua, Willemse; Cretin, Ollivon (capt), Alldritt.

Replacements: Chat, Gros, Aldegheri, Cazeaux, Woki, Jelonch, Serin, Ntamack.

Strong team. Those backs could do a lot of damage. Would like to see France run the ball and avoid an arm wrestle up front.

Spiffy wrote:

FKAS wrote:France: Dulin; Thomas, Vakatawa, Fickou, Penaud; Jalibert, Dupont; Baille, Marchand, Haouas; Taofifenua, Willemse; Cretin, Ollivon (capt), Alldritt.

Replacements: Chat, Gros, Aldegheri, Cazeaux, Woki, Jelonch, Serin, Ntamack.

Strong team. Those backs could do a lot of damage. Would like to see France run the ball and avoid an arm wrestle up front.

They'll kick the leather off it like usual. Then play where it hurts. Our best hope is that we get the stereotypical 'wonder which side will show up despite Edwards' .....they have a lot of class. In fairness, we do too, they just need to show up as well (and in fairness, its a good question to say 'which England will turn up')

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:Dublin is normally a tough place to go but Ireland out of form against a French team playing with swagger, all the talk before the game was about whether Ireland could hold on. It certainly felt like that at times when France were on top. Ireland didn't allow France territory and as you say really got stuck into the French lineout. I'm not confident England will be able to trouble the French lineout in the same way but if they do I expect an early introduction of young Woki. I thought Ireland played well and were very combative but lacked a cutting edge which resonates with where England are.

You are definitely right Malins will be under lots of pressure but he's got a great step and if gets past that first man which because of how the French kick I think he might be able to. Then he's off and will make lots of metres. Malins will also know there's several young fullbacks waiting to take the shirt should he not take his chance with Parton and Steward both looking impressive this season.

Yep on Parton (who if he can just tighten up a bit looks like he has the gas and step to make it internationallY), Steward (old school rock under the high ball with good skills; genuinely no idea on his pace though), and I like Tommy Freeman at Saints too (who is JPR compared to Harry and George).
I wasn't sure that Ireland were out of form tbh- they had a good chance to beat what we know is a good Welsh team even when down to 14. Sexton seems to be their limitating factor tbh . They have an excellent tight 5, good centres, good back three options and a tough back row. They probably haven't maximised their resources if anything.

Quick enough without being lightning - I'd say on a par with a peak Mike Brown (who was actually reasonably fleet at his peak, before the jokes come in). He reminds me very much of Tim Stimpson in a lot of ways - hopefully he'll have a longer England career.

Puja

Why would you want to try and anchor England down with a new Tim Stimpson? If that's the fitting comparison surely he's found his level, at least until he improves more than a little

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: Yep on Parton (who if he can just tighten up a bit looks like he has the gas and step to make it internationallY), Steward (old school rock under the high ball with good skills; genuinely no idea on his pace though), and I like Tommy Freeman at Saints too (who is JPR compared to Harry and George).
I wasn't sure that Ireland were out of form tbh- they had a good chance to beat what we know is a good Welsh team even when down to 14. Sexton seems to be their limitating factor tbh . They have an excellent tight 5, good centres, good back three options and a tough back row. They probably haven't maximised their resources if anything.

Quick enough without being lightning - I'd say on a par with a peak Mike Brown (who was actually reasonably fleet at his peak, before the jokes come in). He reminds me very much of Tim Stimpson in a lot of ways - hopefully he'll have a longer England career.

Puja

Why would you want to try and anchor England down with a new Tim Stimpson? If that's the fitting comparison surely he's found his level, at least until he improves more than a little

1) Stimpson was a pretty good player and a significant part of the very good England squad from 2000-2. Don't be dissing Stimmo.

2) It's just a comparison of his style - hard running, powerful, direct, good under a high ball and in the tackle - not necessarily his quality. He's a long way from actual consideration - he's a teenager in his first real year of senior rugby.

I actually don't think he'll interest Eddie at all - he's a completely different type of player to Malins and Daly and would require a shift to accomodate. Whether he will add playmaking to his repertoire as he gets older remains to be seen, but it's not there now.

Puja

Banquo wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

FKAS wrote:France: Dulin; Thomas, Vakatawa, Fickou, Penaud; Jalibert, Dupont; Baille, Marchand, Haouas; Taofifenua, Willemse; Cretin, Ollivon (capt), Alldritt.

Replacements: Chat, Gros, Aldegheri, Cazeaux, Woki, Jelonch, Serin, Ntamack.

Strong team. Those backs could do a lot of damage. Would like to see France run the ball and avoid an arm wrestle up front.

They'll kick the leather off it like usual. Then play where it hurts. Our best hope is that we get the stereotypical 'wonder which side will show up despite Edwards' .....they have a lot of class. In fairness, we do too, they just need to show up as well (and in fairness, its a good question to say 'which England will turn up')

Edwards has brought a lot, and is english, so is the talk in England, but don't think Galthie would allow any liability... Galthie is possibly even tougher than Ewards with the players

I’m pretty pleased with the lineup TBH. While I wouldn’t say Ewels is an upgrade on Hill, he’s probably a safer bet until Hill can improve/adapt his discipline and technique for test rugby (which isn’t a given anyway).

I’ll be curious to see what happens with Kruis after his stint in Japan. He made it fairly clear that he intends to be back and we’ve definitely missed him. I can’t see him playing for anyone but Saracens, but let’s see if they get promoted first.

I’m happy with Malins at 15. Hopefully he has a good game and stakes a real claim to the starting jersey. My only concern with him is that he’s second choice behind Piutau at Bristol which isn’t the best recipe for a first choice test fullback.

tigran wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Strong team. Those backs could do a lot of damage. Would like to see France run the ball and avoid an arm wrestle up front.

They'll kick the leather off it like usual. Then play where it hurts. Our best hope is that we get the stereotypical 'wonder which side will show up despite Edwards' .....they have a lot of class. In fairness, we do too, they just need to show up as well (and in fairness, its a good question to say 'which England will turn up')

Edwards has brought a lot, and is english, so is the talk in England, but don't think Galthie would allow any liability... Galthie is possibly even tougher than Ewards with the players

good old Ewards.

Scrumhead wrote:I’m pretty pleased with the lineup TBH. While I wouldn’t say Ewels is an upgrade on Hill, he’s probably a safer bet until Hill can improve/adapt his discipline and technique for test rugby (which isn’t a given anyway).

I’ll be curious to see what happens with Kruis after his stint in Japan. He made it fairly clear that he intends to be back and we’ve definitely missed him. I can’t see him playing for anyone but Saracens, but let’s see if they get promoted first.

I’m happy with Malins at 15. Hopefully he has a good game and stakes a real claim to the starting jersey. My only concern with him is that he’s second choice behind Piutau at Bristol which isn’t the best recipe for a first choice test fullback.

yeah, cos Ewels wouldn't give away a stupid penalty changing the momentum of the game...

Banquo wrote:

tigran wrote:

Banquo wrote: They'll kick the leather off it like usual. Then play where it hurts. Our best hope is that we get the stereotypical 'wonder which side will show up despite Edwards' .....they have a lot of class. In fairness, we do too, they just need to show up as well (and in fairness, its a good question to say 'which England will turn up')

Edwards has brought a lot, and is english, so is the talk in England, but don't think Galthie would allow any liability... Galthie is possibly even tougher than Ewards with the players

good old Ewards.

He's learnt to danse with the french

tigran wrote:

Banquo wrote:

tigran wrote:
Edwards has brought a lot, and is english, so is the talk in England, but don't think Galthie would allow any liability... Galthie is possibly even tougher than Ewards with the players

good old Ewards.

He's learnt to danse with the french

Rather they taught him to

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I’m pretty pleased with the lineup TBH. While I wouldn’t say Ewels is an upgrade on Hill, he’s probably a safer bet until Hill can improve/adapt his discipline and technique for test rugby (which isn’t a given anyway).

I’ll be curious to see what happens with Kruis after his stint in Japan. He made it fairly clear that he intends to be back and we’ve definitely missed him. I can’t see him playing for anyone but Saracens, but let’s see if they get promoted first.

I’m happy with Malins at 15. Hopefully he has a good game and stakes a real claim to the starting jersey. My only concern with him is that he’s second choice behind Piutau at Bristol which isn’t the best recipe for a first choice test fullback.

yeah, cos Ewels wouldn't give away a stupid penalty changing the momentum of the game...

You referring to the one in the Wales game? Don’t you think that was all Genge? Technically was an absolutely awful lift.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
Quick enough without being lightning - I'd say on a par with a peak Mike Brown (who was actually reasonably fleet at his peak, before the jokes come in). He reminds me very much of Tim Stimpson in a lot of ways - hopefully he'll have a longer England career.

Puja

Why would you want to try and anchor England down with a new Tim Stimpson? If that's the fitting comparison surely he's found his level, at least until he improves more than a little

1) Stimpson was a pretty good player and a significant part of the very good England squad from 2000-2. Don't be dissing Stimmo.

2) It's just a comparison of his style - hard running, powerful, direct, good under a high ball and in the tackle - not necessarily his quality. He's a long way from actual consideration - he's a teenager in his first real year of senior rugby.

I actually don't think he'll interest Eddie at all - he's a completely different type of player to Malins and Daly and would require a shift to accomodate. Whether he will add playmaking to his repertoire as he gets older remains to be seen, but it's not there now.

Puja

Steward played flyhalf and centre at school. Tigers academy really pushed him into specialising at fullback which I think he then took on at school. There was a collection of clips from his school days doing the rounds as a highlights package. He kicks for goal and does a lot of playmaking in those. We've seen some good link play from him but I agree we need more of that. He's got a 15m pass off both hands but he's used it about a half a dozen times since he broke into the team. He's also got a really nice offloading game which he's brought to the first team about twice, though I do sympathise because since Nadolo got injured there's no other wingers that track back and run off his shoulder. I think Eddie is very interested but is also seeing that Steward is very happy with the defensive aspects at senior level but is taking time to bring his attacking skills to the table. It's normally the other way round for young back three players but Steward for the last two or three weeks has consistently beaten the first tackler ball in hand he wasn't doing that at the start of the season. Prime candidate for the summer tour squad.

Pace wise. Above average but not rapid. He's got long legs so a ridiculously long stride which means he tends to eat up the ground a lot quicker than you think. Limits his acceleration a touch but also makes him harder to tackle if you try and tackle low. Most players will need to as well because he's starting to show a good swerve and he's 16 stone so at speed will bounce out of tackles.

Banquo wrote:

tigran wrote:

Banquo wrote: They'll kick the leather off it like usual. Then play where it hurts. Our best hope is that we get the stereotypical 'wonder which side will show up despite Edwards' .....they have a lot of class. In fairness, we do too, they just need to show up as well (and in fairness, its a good question to say 'which England will turn up')

Edwards has brought a lot, and is english, so is the talk in England, but don't think Galthie would allow any liability... Galthie is possibly even tougher than Ewards with the players

good old Ewards.

Love the fact you had to edit that.

I wonder how Farrell and Slade will cope with Fickou and Vakatawa? With a bit of difficulty, I’d have thought. We’ve seen how Finn Russell gets the most out of Vakatawa with Racing, so let’s hope that Jalibert does the same.