RugbyRebels

That was highly entertaining. Quality play, some cracking tries and plenty of good moments from England players and hopefuls.
Of the latter I thought Langdon had a strong game and a word for Miles Reid who isnt in the England conversation but goodness he puts in a shift every time he plays.

Saints did their best to chuck it away but fair play for hanging in with such a makeshift pack in the last 25 mins or so.
I only saw the second half live, so not sure why Fin Smith got motm!?

Mitchell looked sharp, thought yellow a tad harsh tbh, at least he banged into someone who actually had the ball.

Puja wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 4:56 pm Am very glad Saints won that. That was a terrible decision to yellow Mitchell, given it was exactly the same a s the Coetzee head contact except the runner was given the pass, and I can't help but feel that Lawrence went down like a footballer to deliberately make sure he got the penalty.

Puja

Agreed. Both pens and nothing more, imo.
I was hoping that the yellow was for Lawrence. Going to ground for a glancing blow to the head?!? Ridiculous. If he did also give Hendy some mouth after the late hit then he needs to go to rugby values school.

I’m a big fan of Flatman but he gave a masterclass on why ex players shouldn’t commentate on their own team. I also love his assertion that Smith nailed clutch kicks - good on Smith for pointing out that he missed two of three (with the third off the post) prior to that. A good head on talented shoulders, unlike Lawrence.

Should also add that Ojomoh’s no look pass that lead to the yellow was a thing of beauty.

I've no idea how hard the head contact was for Ollie, and I've no problem with him stopping to internally assess.
But if the head contact is enough that you stop to internally assess it, then it's enough to require an HIA. But then, personally, I think that if a head contact is bad enough to see a red card, that should be an automatic HIA too.
Shouldn't have been a yellow IMO, as Mitchell was trying to pull out, not out in a tackle. I think Ollie stopping play had the ref worried, and feeling that he had to do something.

I am always surprised that the powers that be never made it so that head contact resulting in a card should always be joined with the player(s) involved having a HIA. It seems like a no brainer.

The argument is that a low severity contact needs to be penalised as well, not just risky ones, and that enforcing an HIA is punishing the victim(s team).
So I kinda get that.
But if the card is red, the rationale is gone (IMO).
I'd then add that if the player stops play (eg Lawrence today) then as a ref, I'd take that as them requesting an HIA.

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 4:59 pm What we're bath doing, playing at a restart that was dropping short and would have been a scrum back and then giving away a penalty in front of the posts when the ref is shouting at you NO

Mind, easy enough to say they should leave the restart alone, but if they do and so do Saints, it'll bounce over the line and could be regathered anyway. If it's landing anywhere near the line, you need to defend it.

Puja

How bad was the injury to Hendy? He could otherwise be on the fringe of the England squad given the injuries

I really don’t think that was Lawrence laughing at Hendy being injured. I think that was disbelief (rightly or wrongly) at being called out for the late hit, but maybe I missed some verbals?

I did think Coetzee head on Dingwall (I think?) was pretty reckless to be honest, considerably more than Mitchell’s anyway.

Crazy game. My feed cut out 3 minutes before the end but also quite surprised to see Smith get MOTM.

Lawrence not being forced off for a head assessment still seems ridiculous, even if it could be viewed as ‘punishing’ Bath.

Also wondering what the injury list from this game is going to look like.

Puja wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 6:56 pm

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 4:59 pm What we're bath doing, playing at a restart that was dropping short and would have been a scrum back and then giving away a penalty in front of the posts when the ref is shouting at you NO

Mind, easy enough to say they should leave the restart alone, but if they do and so do Saints, it'll bounce over the line and could be regathered anyway. If it's landing anywhere near the line, you need to defend it.

Puja

Does the ball not have to make the10m line without hitting the ground?

If still if its going to make it with a bounce its coming to your players. It was a brutal attempt to gather from the bath player

Lawrence takes the bang straight on the nose which is why he grabs his face, always a sore one. Don't think he tried to milk it, to quick a reaction for that.

The verbals after the Hendy late tackle was I think because the Saints players were asking for a TMO review and Lawrence didn't like that. Which to be fair it's not a dangerous tackles it's just late and cheap.

Smith edged the battle of the Fin(n)s. He was fantastic in the first half.

Good game for the neutral, nerve shredding for the fans of the two sides.

A bang to his nose. He’s lucky to be alive! I honestly can’t see how he couldn’t have kept going until the breakdown. Obvs, nobody knows (no pun intended) how much he was hurt other than him but given everything that happened post contact I fail to believe it was bad enough for the game to be stopped. All guesswork, of course, and I’m not entirely sure why I’m debating it other than anything is better than watching the Giants.
Smith was good in the first half but was very shaky in the second when Saints weren’t on top. I never expect a 10 to look great when his forwards are getting pumped but he made far too many mistakes, particular with the boot.

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:38 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 6:56 pm

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 4:59 pm What we're bath doing, playing at a restart that was dropping short and would have been a scrum back and then giving away a penalty in front of the posts when the ref is shouting at you NO

Mind, easy enough to say they should leave the restart alone, but if they do and so do Saints, it'll bounce over the line and could be regathered anyway. If it's landing anywhere near the line, you need to defend it.

Puja

Does the ball not have to make the10m line without hitting the ground?

Nope - you can even grubber it if you want. The kickoff just has to travel 10m, so letting a ball like that bounce is dangerous as it could hit the 10m line and skip back into attacking hands. You're right that it wasn't a great field, but he was under a lot of pressure.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:38 pm Lawrence takes the bang straight on the nose which is why he grabs his face, always a sore one. Don't think he tried to milk it, to quick a reaction for that.

The verbals after the Hendy late tackle was I think because the Saints players were asking for a TMO review and Lawrence didn't like that. Which to be fair it's not a dangerous tackles it's just late and cheap.

Sore, sure, but enough so you'd stop running a few steps after it happened and drop to your knees? If that contact happens 10m from the tryline, there's no way he stops running and clutches his face after a contact that minor.

Plus, I have to say I think the hit on Hendy was nasty - tucked arm shoulder charge to a player without the ball. It's a cheap shot and way more deserving of a yellow than Mitchell's.

Puja

Puja wrote:

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:38 pm Lawrence takes the bang straight on the nose which is why he grabs his face, always a sore one. Don't think he tried to milk it, to quick a reaction for that.

The verbals after the Hendy late tackle was I think because the Saints players were asking for a TMO review and Lawrence didn't like that. Which to be fair it's not a dangerous tackles it's just late and cheap.

Sore, sure, but enough so you'd stop running a few steps after it happened and drop to your knees? If that contact happens 10m from the tryline, there's no way he stops running and clutches his face after a contact that minor.

Plus, I have to say I think the hit on Hendy was nasty - tucked arm shoulder charge to a player without the ball. It's a cheap shot and way more deserving of a yellow than Mitchell's.

Puja

Yeah he's not getting points for being tough grabbing his nose like that. Still think it looked too quick a reaction for intentional silly buggers. Once he grabbed his nose he probably went with it and carried on.

The "tucked" arm is because the hand is there to push Hendy as opposed so that he can smash his shoulder in. It's a cheap shot but one that was carefully judged to be nowt more than a penalty for being late. He wanted to rough Hendy up after seeing him get treatment and he did.

As someone with quite a few blows to the nose in their history, it does take a second to really kick in, I can understand why the reaction was a bit delayed

Danno wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 11:17 pm As someone with quite a few blows to the nose in their history, it does take a second to really kick in, I can understand why the reaction was a bit delayed

Yeah, but I've had blows to the nose while playing rugby - there is no way that you just abandon your run and stop playing. It hurts like fuck, but you keep running forwards because you've got the ball in your hands!

Frankly, you'd think Ollie Lawrence would want to relish a rare opportunity where he's gone into contact and not lost the ball.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 12:10 am

Danno wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 11:17 pm As someone with quite a few blows to the nose in their history, it does take a second to really kick in, I can understand why the reaction was a bit delayed

Yeah, but I've had blows to the nose while playing rugby - there is no way that you just abandon your run and stop playing. It hurts like fuck, but you keep running forwards because you've got the ball in your hands!

Frankly, you'd think Ollie Lawrence would want to relish a rare opportunity where he's gone into contact and not lost the ball.

Puja

He does lose the ball on the ground, maybe that's why he hangs onto his nose so much. Wanted an excuse.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 5:21 pm Saints did their best to chuck it away but fair play for hanging in with such a makeshift pack in the last 25 mins or so.
I only saw the second half live, so not sure why Fin Smith got motm!?

Mitchell looked sharp, thought yellow a tad harsh tbh, at least he banged into someone who actually had the ball.

He was SO good in the first half. Everything he did was gold. Including absolutely demolishing Miles Reid with the most perfect tackle.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:15 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 5:21 pm Saints did their best to chuck it away but fair play for hanging in with such a makeshift pack in the last 25 mins or so.
I only saw the second half live, so not sure why Fin Smith got motm!?

Mitchell looked sharp, thought yellow a tad harsh tbh, at least he banged into someone who actually had the ball.

He was SO good in the first half. Everything he did was gold. Including absolutely demolishing Miles Reid with the most perfect tackle.

it was just he was bang average second!

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 12:10 am

Danno wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 11:17 pm As someone with quite a few blows to the nose in their history, it does take a second to really kick in, I can understand why the reaction was a bit delayed

Yeah, but I've had blows to the nose while playing rugby - there is no way that you just abandon your run and stop playing. It hurts like fuck, but you keep running forwards because you've got the ball in your hands!

Frankly, you'd think Ollie Lawrence would want to relish a rare opportunity where he's gone into contact and not lost the ball.

Puja

Bahahaaa

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:23 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:15 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2025 5:21 pm Saints did their best to chuck it away but fair play for hanging in with such a makeshift pack in the last 25 mins or so.
I only saw the second half live, so not sure why Fin Smith got motm!?

Mitchell looked sharp, thought yellow a tad harsh tbh, at least he banged into someone who actually had the ball.

He was SO good in the first half. Everything he did was gold. Including absolutely demolishing Miles Reid with the most perfect tackle.

it was just he was bang average second!

First half Fin Smith was unplayable. Incredible. Second half with Saints pack suffering up front against Bath's fresh replacements he didn't get as much going. The two missed kicks at goal weren't great either, he'd have been expecting to get those. The first half performance paved the way to victory though.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 10:15 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:23 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:15 am

He was SO good in the first half. Everything he did was gold. Including absolutely demolishing Miles Reid with the most perfect tackle.

it was just he was bang average second!

First half Fin Smith was unplayable. Incredible. Second half with Saints pack suffering up front against Bath's fresh replacements he didn't get as much going. The two missed kicks at goal weren't great either, he'd have been expecting to get those. The first half performance paved the way to victory though.

fair enough, though they did have to win the game three times before letting Bath back into it too easily. Agreed that Saints pack struggled second half, unsurprisingly after losing both locks simultaneously!